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Comment by jordanb | Hacker News Reader

Airline upgrades is a market for lemons. Even if you, say, buy an upgraded seat you may get sat next to a big guy or a rowdy child and then your seat sucks. Instead you have to pay much more (sometimes multiple times a main-cabin ticket) for the cabins up front and even then you might have to set next to a drunk businessman.

If you complain you will get told there's nothing that can be done. Even if you get sat in a seat soiled with vomit or poop[1][2]. And of course you may get bumped from your flight, potentially violently[3] or have it delayed, rerouted or cancelled.

So it's a market for lemons, you buy the cheapest ticket you can since the experience is likely to suck no matter what you do, and you try to endure it.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger-forced-sit-seat-cov... [3] https://qz.com/954791/everything-that-went-wrong-in-uniteds-...

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I've traveled for business a few times and a few times I got the company to pay for a first class seat up front. One time the first class cabin had a crying baby in it. Another time it was full of rowdy children. It turns out that rich people have children too. Paying for first class simply decreases your chances of dealing with such things, just like any other seat upgrade.

I suspect that airlines could offer seats which guarantee that you won't be subjected to various nuisances, but choose not to.

From what I've noticed, first class in the US is usually around 3x the price. As a big guy I'll usually swallow the bullet on cost. I really don't mind kids too much and like chatty people.

Otherwise, I have noise cancelling headphones

That said. I do think I can handle a whole can of soda. On the food front, I can pretty much take it out leave it.

>I really don't mind kids too much

I agree, and besides: We were all that kid at some point or another in our lives, probably many times too. The adults then were patient with us, so I think it's our turn to pay that hospitality forward.

> were all that kid at some point or another in our lives

I wasn't because my mother would never have sat with me on her lap and let me kick the arm of the stranger next to us the entire flight..

I presume you don’t recall directly. I wouldn’t suppose your mother would tell you that “yeah, I let you run amok on flights”. Notwithstanding that the general point was a tad broader.

That's an interesting anecdote.

I fly first class a fair bit (10-12 flights per year), and children in first class is pretty rare. When I've seen it, they've never been rowdy. In fact, my experience is that its usually really quiet, which is one of the things I really value.

Maybe i'm just the luckiest person in the world. But its never happened to me and I fly a moderate amount to have some sample data.

I will concede, that flight rowdiness in general is very different based on time of day. The afternoon is the worst. Fridays and Mondays are the worst. I love night flights, to the point where I prefer them. Everyone is so much calmer on red-eyes.

Why does first class decrease the chance of rowdy children?

In some cities, only the rich can afford multiple kids.

In my experience, the cultural differences due to socioeconomics explains a reduced chance of having to tolerate rowdy children. Those children in first class will be better behaved on average, or the parents will be more likely to heed complaints.

That's because you're paying for a wider seat and better service.

I suspect they are just as happy to take some kids parents money for the seat as not.

And judging by the number of people I know that get upgraded, its not like they sell out every flight.

First class is always full. If you have status with the airlines you can get free upgrades to first class now. So they start releasing upgrades like 3 days ahead of time for the best statusholders. Then 2 days before they release upgrades for the middle tiers, and same-day or day before is the lower tiers. They basically try to shift everyone up a tier in the flight and the extra coach seats that those people left behind will get filled with the basic-economy fliers, which is why they don't let them reserve seats: they just use them to fill in the gaps on the flight.

You are more likely to have an empty seat next to you in the back of the plane than in the first class.

Yes, its always full bit it's not always sold. An upgrade is the airline turning an unsold seat into a potential future sold seat or customer good will.

But they don't get full price for it in any way. They'll take money to seat kids there if you wanna pay.

They do sell out upgraded seats every flight.

In the later 90s, I used to try to upgraded at check in. It was usually a 2x cost of the was a seat or less vs 3x of you got first class ahead of time. Since the 00s is pretty much never an option. Most flights are over sold and getting a decent seat (prefer front row) is really hard.

And the past couple years, even then they're often sold out when buying tickets less than months ahead of time. Mostly have traveled in occasion for work and mostly shorter notice.

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