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Comment by GordonS | Hacker News Reader

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could

And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far.

> who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure

Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbolic. That said, I do feel like Hamas are fools for continuing to fire them - I understand they need to resist blockade, occupation and dehumanisation, but I just can't see how this could possibly help.

> We know this is true because Hamas leadership has been saying this for decades

Except, thats not really true, is it? Hamas have been openly saying for several years now that they have no beef with people of the Jewish faith, they just want their homes back.

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> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable

This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

That is not at all what I said - are you commenting in good faith? We've also seen no credible evidence that Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques or hospitals.

> We've also seen no credible evidence...

We have seen plenty of credible evidence. Just, no evidence that you will accept.

If you're going to make the claim that credible evidence exists, please do share it. Genuinely, I haven't seen anything credible.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39628388

the person you're responding to also claims there is no 'credible evidence' of rape - they're a troll

> "That is not at all what I said -"

You literally did say that. In response to:

>> "who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure"

You said:

> "Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable."

But ok, if you really are commenting in good faith then also explain why Hamas puts military hardware inside of schools, mosques and hospitals.

Are you one of those people who insist that Israel must have everything signed in triplicate and verified by 20 credible sources while Hamas just has to gesture vaguely?

United Nations Report on Schools: A report from the United Nations confirmed that Hamas stored weapons in UNRWA schools during the conflict in Gaza. Notably, weapons were found in the UNRWA Jabalia Elementary “C” and Ayyobiya Boys School. The report highlighted that it was highly likely that Palestinian armed groups used these premises to hide weapons and, in some cases, to launch attacks. The UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned these actions as unacceptable, stating that such conduct put UN schools at risk

https://www.thetower.org/1955-un-report-confirms-hamas-store...

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) Evidence: The IDF has released photos showing that terrorist groups placed rocket launchers next to schools in Gaza. This action aligns with long-standing charges against Hamas for using civilian infrastructure for military purposes

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-releases-photos-showing-te...

White House Intelligence on Al Shifa Hospital: The White House disclosed that it had intelligence indicating Hamas was using Gaza's largest hospital, Al Shifa, to run military operations and likely to store weapons. This information suggested that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad were using some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including Al Shifa, to support their military operations and possibly to hold hostages. The actions at Al Shifa hospital were described as constituting a war crime

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/white-house-says-i...

Video evidence:

Hamas Planted Explosives Inside A Gaza Kindergarten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQefwUWJwz8

Hamas Fighting in Civilian Clothes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7IKvIROXk

UN Report: Hamas probably raped Israeli women, some men, even corpses:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217

> You literally did say that

Not literally, no. My comment was in response to the general case of "in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure" - that truly is unavoidable. You then stretched that to the inside of schools, mosques and hospitals.

I don't have time to go through the first two links, but if the first is from UN I'll certainly take it at face value. As for the second link, I'm sorry, but when the IDF has told so very many lies, and been caught in them so many times - the IDF simply cannot be trusted.

> White House Intelligence on Al Shifa Hospital

Who later admitted that their intel came from... the IDF! And Al Shifa!... the hospital where the IDF produced that ridiculous 3D rendering to show the hospital as some kind of high-tech "terror HQ - all designed to manufacture consent for attacking the hospital. And of course, it all turned out to be BS.

> The actions at Al Shifa hospital were described as constituting a war crime

If Hamas was using Al Shifa as a base for military opertions, those actions would arguably have constituted a war crime, yes. But as it turned out, there was no evidence.

I do have to say, it's kind of odd for proponents of Israel's ethnic cleansing/genocide to bring up war crimes. Especially since Israel has contravened 62 UN resolutions, and Netenyahu has publicly stated he will ignore international law.

> ...when the IDF has told so very many lies, and been caught in them so many times - the IDF simply cannot be trusted.

Not a thing that happened, but it has a become a truism in certain circles that Jews lie, which naturally transforms to "IDF lies".

> it's kind of odd for proponents of Israel's ethnic cleansing/genocide to bring up war crimes

Your poison pill aside, it's not odd for proponents of Israel to bring up war crimes because Israel is a civilized, democratic nation who values the rule of law. Her opponents, however, do not, and will accuse in a mirror.

Open your eyes. That's just post justification for when the IDF destroys schools, mosques and hospitals.

I'm listening. Do you have evidence of IDF planting evidence? Do you have motivation for why they would do this?

> Except, thats not really true, is it? Hamas have been openly saying for several years now that they have no beef with people of the Jewish faith, they just want their homes back.

No, that is not what they have been saying. That's what you have been hearing, but they have been saying they want the area to be under Muslim control. They could have had their homes back decades ago if they accepted Israeli rule. No. When they say "Free Palestine" you hear Western ideas of freedom, democracy, sovereignty, dignity. They mean "Free Palestine of Jews". We know this because they say it and act on it, repeatedly.

> They could have had their homes back decades ago if they accepted Israeli rule

"accepted Israeli rule?!". If Russia decides to occupy your country, would you be so accepting?!

Never mind the fact that the West Bank shows exactly what happens when you "accept Israeli rule" - living under a brutal, dehumanising apartheid regime.

Did you know that Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt and West Bank back to Jordan? They refused. Palestinians are endless trouble. This is known throughout the Arab world. It's hardly an "occupation". Israel doesn't want it.

> Did you know that Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt and West Bank back to Jordan?

This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt! [0] Netanyahu's plans for "Greater Israel" (which includes the West Bank and Gaza) also run contrary to this claim.

> Israel doesn't want it

Israel's actions say otherwise. And let's not forget that Israel continues to illegally occupy land in Lebanon and Syria - they absolutetly want more land, and Gaza would be perfect for a port, some nice beachfront properties etc.

Also, why have they built a road bisecting Gaza? Why are many Israelis discussing the occupation of northern Gaza like it's a done deal? Why are Israelis holding meetings to plan building settlements in Gaza, attended by gov ministers? Why has Israel given out deals to oil companies for fields off the north coast of Gaza?

[0] https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/81796

> This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt

So confident and yet so wrong. This is literally history. Are you pro-Hamas because you don't know the history of the region, or do you not know the history region because you're motivated to ignore it where it contradicts your pro-Hamas narrative?

From whom did Israel seize control of Gaza in 1967?

I appreciate your more substantive contributions to the thread, but you've also broken the site guidelines a lot, such as with snark and personal attacks. Can you please edit that sort of thing out of your HN posts in the future? I know it's not easy in the heat of the moment, but it's critical to the survival of this site, and it will also make your own posts a lot more persuasive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we've had to ask you about this before, and not only about this topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38583206 (Dec 2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37648667 (Sept 2023)

Eventually we have no choice but to ban accounts that keep breaking HN's rules like this and ignore our requests to stop. I don't want to ban you, so if you would please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, that would be good. You broke a great many of them here, including:

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

When you say "a lot" in this thread I honestly don't know what you mean. "So confident and yet so wrong" was admittedly prickly, but my follow up question was earnest, not a personal attack. Direct, but not snarky.

I cannot find other examples of snark or personal attacks in this thread.

> 30-50k... so far...

... according to Hamas.

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