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Comment by MichaelRo | Hacker News Reader

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It's odd to use dock workers as a contrast, since their heavy unionization has led to very high pay rates (which, for the record, I think are deserved):

"Full-time dock foremen earned 24% more than the average CEO’s base salary in 2022 and 20% more than neurologists. ILWU clerks earned just $5,600 per year less than airline pilots. Full-time dockworkers came in 21% higher than lawyers and 9% above dentists.

Average earnings in 2022 for all full-time ILWU registrants — $211,000 — were 3.4 times higher than the average wage for all professions calculated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics."[1]

Meanwhile the "Google employees" referenced in this story are contractors who are paid ~$19/hr, or ~$40k/year at full time pay.

[1]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/west-coast-dockworkers-making...

This is a very odd stance to take. If we can agree unions are a good thing then both the high and low paying employees should have access to and use unions.

I would argue that Google staff unionising is a good thing for everyone. It shows even high paid tech workers deserve protection. Google has demonstrated this exactly. They just fired everyone in the team!

>> If we can agree unions are a good thing then both the high and low paying employees should have access to and use unions.

That's exactly the kind of privileged talk I would expect from someone who never had it rough in live.

No, living on minimum wage doing shitwork is not the same as high paid pampered worker.

> No, living on minimum wage doing shitwork is not the same as high paid pampered worker.

Where do you see that these union members are "high paid pampered workers" who are "delicate snowflakes with countless perks and baristas at their service"?

At https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/press/youtube-music-con... I read

"We are so proud to stand together to demand that our employers give us the basic dignity of a living wage, so that we can continue to enjoy living and working in our community that has become nearly impossible to afford–due in part to big technology companies relocating their headquarters here."

I don't think high paid pampered workers would call for a living wage, so I don't think you are talking about these employees.

At https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/press/youtube-music-wor... I read complaints about "Google and Cognizant’s unlawful refusal to bargain."

You can't really believe that if you employer pays you well that means you employer gets to break the law, do you?

It also points out

"Currently, 10% of the YouTube Music Content Operations Team has COVID. Yet, in the midst of this outbreak, Cognizant and Google are denying workers access to COVID tests, paid COVID leave or even the flexibility to safely work from home. This is counter to the policies Google sets for its main office buildings."

suggesting that your views about how Google employees are treated aren't relevant to these union members, who are treated different than the highly-paid engineers at the Googleplex.

>living on minimum wage doing shitwork is not the same as high paid pampered worker.

I don't see anyone claiming they are the same.

Parent says both deserve the same rights, including the right to enter a union. Granted, there is a clear disparity in what either group can potentially gain from it.

This kind of mentality does someone in the tougher position no good. Higher paid or more established employees joining a union will likely be making sacrifices to help more vulnerable colleagues in the name of solidarity. The alternative is division which an employer (or group of employers) will take with open arms.

Sometimes trying to find patterns in the past and apply them to modern day situations can lead to absurd results, and I think your comment shows that perfectly.

I'm open to the idea of unionization or a guild for SWEs but being beat to death by Pinkertons we are not.

This argument is not one that union advocates would make. Indeed, the separation of blue collar and white collar work is a problem that gets in the way of goals of union advocates.

There may not be guns pointed at programmers, but there are long hours expectations. The perks you're talking about tech workers being pampered with are there to keep workers there longer. The land wealthy companies have been buying to get cheap housing for employees echo company towns but legal.

I recommend reading books like "Brave New World" to highlight how being 'pampered' doesn't mean you're not in a distopia.

In any case, you don't have to like unions, just understand that tech isn't an exception.

> There may not be guns pointed at programmers, but there are long hours expectations. The perks you're talking about tech workers being pampered with are there to keep workers there longer.

I’d also add things like ageism to the mix. It’s not hard to find people who thought this was great when they were 25 but now a couple decades later are noticing that it kind of sucks when they have family responsibilities and also the people their age or older are increasingly laid off or pushed to leave.

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