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Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

This whole thing is so weird.

What I'm most curious about is, why did the Pennsylvania Game Commission set up this sting operation in the first place?

And why did they choose to target this man in particular?

Is people recovering deer with drone flashlights some huge problem that they're trying to publicly crack down on? Because it doesn't sound like it from the article -- it sounds like this is an ambiguous section of the law where what he was doing was helpful rather than harmful.

Or did the commission have other problems with the guy but they couldn't do anything about it, so they targeted him specifically, and this sting operation was the best they could come up with?

None of it seems to add up, from what's in the article.

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> What I'm most curious about is, why did the Pennsylvania Game Commission set up this sting operation in the first place?

Because he explicitly specialized in this kind of thing. From his linked website:

> we specialize in providing services related to deer hunting,

> 3) Can you fly at night? Yes, we can fly day or night. Our drones are equipped with military-grade night vision cameras.

but this is combined with the fact that the drone was clearly actually equipped with light sources (not just night vision), which are quite broadly illegal when animals are involved.

The game wardens wouldn't set up a sting for something he wasn't in the habit of doing.

The most chapter of law for people to interpret (several sections are potentially relevant):

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?...

Ah OK, I didn't realize he was providing this as a commercial service -- thanks for the context.

From the article it seemed like he was just a random drone enthusiast.

If he's actually advertising services for hire that turn out to break the law in practice, that at least makes much more sense of why they'd target him specifically.

Whether the law itself makes sense or not is a separate discussion, but now the sting operation doesn't seem like a totally random thing. Thanks!

I wonder if they bothered to send him a warning first, or if they went straight for the sting operation.

I have to agree with you. This whole thing is bananas - it’s not like you have some good ol’ boys jacklighting deer and shooting them. It just sounds like some guy who was excited to have a little drone business and was happy to help some folks out with his toy.

As a sheriff friend of mine would put it, busting a guy like that really isn’t in the “spirit of the law.” Maybe there was some bad blood or something between this guy and the wardens.

Don’t get me wrong - wardens can be pretty strict and I’ve known a few who have actually ticketed themselves for making a mistake, but this wasn’t a warden just coming up on a scene and issuing a citation, and saying “sorry boys, I wish I didn’t have to write you up but here we are…” this was a calculated setup and seems like a pretty cheap shot.

From the linked AP article:

“Wingenroth, who openly advertised his business in area publications, was told by state game wardens last year that such an activity was illegal, authorities said. Wingeroth, though, told them his lawyer “has a different interpretation” of the law.”

…The game wardens warned him and he basically forced their hand by telling them to shove it.

Ah, okay - thanks for the additional detail. Makes a little more sense now.

Because he’s not a hick with a spot light in his beat up pickup, he’s cool to use spotlights? Somehow on a drone it’s fair to chase deer with a spotlight at night?

The reason why they cited him was clear in the article. People didn’t like the law, they’re trying to change it.

It seems lazy to hunt an animal knowing you’ll need electronic assistance to take control of the dead animal.

Uh, okay. I guess it’s because he was enlisted to try and recover a dead or wounded animal and was not out shooting them that I find this ridiculous. He wasn’t a hunter, and wasn’t hunting - he was asked to help find a downed or injured animal with his drone and I think most people who had such an ability would be happy to help.

Nobody wants an injured animal to run off and die an awful death and so it’s best to find them any way you can.

He’s a professional. He is expected to know and consistently obey the laws, no matter how loosely they are enforced.

Don’t shoot if you aren’t sure you’ll kill the animal. Get better at shooting if you miss so much that you need a drone.

> Don’t shoot if you aren’t sure you’ll kill the animal.

Nobody can guarantee they will kill an animal with any given shot from a rifle or bow. Nobody. That you think this is a remotely reasonable position makes me wonder if you've ever hunted, or fired a weapon at a (potentially) moving target before.

The only justification for illegalizing spotlights for recovery that I've seen is that it stops poachers from claiming that's what they were doing. That's all well and good- the law must be pragmatic so what can you do? And if they caught the guy out in the woods doing this, of course they'd have to enforce it.

What's absurd is running a sting to catch a guy who is explicitly not poaching and thus is not the target of the legislation. The government should be in the business of preventing harm, not going out of their way to punish people for violating bureaucracy.

You sound like one of those guys who can’t figure out why he gets speeding tickets when everyone else gets a warning.

Never got a ticket. I obey the laws. :)

I kind of get the vibe there's some small town politics and someone complained to the game warden about this guy so they set out to catch him doing something illegal.

Me too. I’ve lived in a small town and know how that works. I accidentally shot a deer one time when I was out hunting coyotes but the warden knew me and so I got “taking game out of season” instead of “poaching” - I actually didn’t know there was a difference, but I guess there is. If you call it in and report yourself you get some courtesy.

I did make the local paper, so it was kind funny when all my friends started calling me about why I was listed in the police blotter section of the local gazette.

Good times.

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