Comment by aimor | Hacker News Reader

Comment by aimor | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

"And I’m here to tell you that when you forsake modern technology the world generally refuses to take part in the experiment. You find this out the first time someone behind a ticket window looks you in the eye and tells you to just download the app."

This happened to me twice just last week: first at a museum when I asked for a map and was told they simply didn't have them anymore and I'd have to use my phone, then at a restaurant where it was the same story. Browsing a menu on a phone is a really poor experience, it's just not enough space to see much at once and that's even without accounting for whatever awful navigation they built. This isn't a big problem, but it is worse than how things used to be and nobody likes when technology makes things worse.

It reminds me of how rail stations have moved to digital signs. In the past there were kiosks displaying a paper map of the rail lines, and there were other kiosks displaying ads and other things. Well now there are new digital signs that cycle between the rail map and a bunch of ads. It's a worse experience, it makes pulling up the app seem pleasant by comparison.

Earlier, when restaurants wanted to increase prices, they had to reprint all their menus. So there was at least a small barrier to jacking up prices.

Now, with online menus, they can basically slowly keep increasing prices any time without any cost to them. No wonder they love it!

The worst thing is most of them don't even have actual responsive websites. It's just a literal PDF download that you now have to keep panning left right on a tiny screen.

> The worst thing is most of them don't even have actual responsive websites. It's just a literal PDF download that you now have to keep panning left right on a tiny screen.

I could almost get into it if it were a large screen tablet mounted at the table, with a great UI, where you just tap, tap, tap out your order, hit submit, and poof your drinks and food arrive. Pop in your credit card to pay, and off you go! At least make good use of the digital user interface. Reduce inefficiencies like the wait staff having to make dozens of trips to collect your drink order, come back, take your meal order, come back, take your credit card, return your credit card.

But, no, they digitized the only part of the restaurant that already was working pretty efficiently in physical form.

That’s exactly the experience with McDonalds here in Ukraine. Mind blowing how modern it is.

I've seen videos of exactly this at restaurants in Japan. In some of them your food even arrives via tableside conveyor belts.

Some all-you-can-eat sushi spots in Toronto have these too!

I always wonder about entering credit card details on those random self-order ipads...

I would probably never visit the restaurant with app only menu. It's weird for me that someone had such an idea and still would call the place a restaurant. I know I am overblowing it but it's just mind-boggling to me.

You're not the only one; see:

>The QR-Code Menu Is Being Shown the Door

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/22/dining/restaurant-qr-code...

https://archive.ph/exWjB

I sympathize with your concerns, but I also understand why museums are eliminating paper maps. Museums are trying to be more "green" and those maps always resulted in a lot of solid waste and litter.

And it is a cost savings. You don’t see as many green initiatives that impact the bottom line.

Promoting reusability could be possible. Give people maps and offer a spot at the exit for them to be dropped back. Use that recycled paper type of paper so that it anyway looks trashed up at first use itself.

Modern museums also change exhibits from week to week, sometimes from day to day. Maintaining accurate hardcopy maps is unnecessary work. Updating an online map is the efficient way to go.

Now museums are green but I'll have to pay $500 for a new phone every two or three years plus cellular data (Seems to average $70/mo for unlimited data in US?) and these costs pay for cellular stations and electricity and electronics that become garbage after just a few years. Is that really greener?

sunk cost for museum

They can still put a large map on a wall. Minimal waste and very useable

I actually like the digital menus, and ordering through a website. IDK why people get so worked up over it.

Ah yes the digital-only menu, one of more idiotic cargo-culting moves (although not sure who they are actually following here, maybe just general zeitgeist). I try to politely suggest that this is their weak spot when paying and tip accordingly.

I would just walk out and find a different restaurant. Restaurants are a dime a dozen, and we rarely go out specifically to a particular one. Fortunately I have run into just one restaurant in my life that did not have paper menus and there was a different one that looked great across the street. Problem solved.

The waitstaff who receive tips aren't the ones who make menu format decisions.

Pushing back against digital-only menus is a good thing, IMO. But the person you're tipping likely has zero control over this.

Unfortunately the incentive structures of tipping are all over the place anyway.

Of all the people in the restaurant that contribute to my experience eating out, the waiter probably offers the least differentiation (in my humble opinion). It's just a transport layer for the order. The food is made by line staff, the menu is designed by someone else. The overall music, lighting, ambience, decor is someone else. But culturally, the waiter is the one we are expected to tip.

Embedded in that culture is the fact that the wait staff is often (legally) paid far less than the other people involved, and that their survival depends on those tips.

The pricing of the meal is what pays for the music, lighting, ambience and decor.

I'm not saying any of this makes sense, or that I think it's a good system, but I know too many people who rationalize poor tipping because they disagree with a system that the wait staff has no power to control.

I want the system to change, but I also don't feel that it's right to protest against it at the expense of the people least able to do anything about it.

Eh I do have to say this is grandpa yelling at the clouds territory. Printed menus tend to be fair expense, especially where you have 3+ daily menus and weekend menus. Couple that with items that go out of stock a digital menu that stays up to date is great.

Should the place have a few menus printed out on paper, probably. But the number of people that demand paper is rather low.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com