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Comment by lozenge | Hacker News Reader

I don't mean just adding an improved notification API, I mean they could literally allow access to the entire SwiftUI and all other iOS APIs from the web. Heck, they could allow PWAs to run in Objective-C instead of JavaScript. At that point it would be indistinguishable from a native app, except that it would not be beholden to Apple's policies like Core Technology Fee, notarisation, payment scare screens, etc ( https://proton.me/blog/apple-dma-compliance-plan-trap )

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You can use web notifications, and you can compile Objective C to webassembly. You're also able to use apple pay. Everything you've mentioned has a workaround.

I'm really getting at how PWAs are basically something most people wouldn't use, not because they're missing APIs but because they're just a terrible experience and difficult to install and use.

If its Apple that is holding back PWAs so much, its not that they're any successful on Android either.

And then to extend the argument further, "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" aren't much success either from an adoption perspective, despite having full access to the APIs native apps have.

There is another thing holding PWAs back: they don’t offer as much data mining potential as native apps. A lot of companies sabotage their own web apps just to force you to use the spyware in the App Store, and I’ll admit that isn’t Apple’s fault.

> And then to extend the argument further, "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" aren't much success either from an adoption perspective, despite having full access to the APIs native apps have.

They never had full access to the APIs native apps have, what are you talking about? Last time I tried to develop instant app on Android (and that was like 4(?) years ago), it didn't have access to network interfaces or something like that. It was a great idea on paper, but terrible in execution.

your comment is terrible and a big tell you have no idea of web technology :)

there are plenty of web capabilities that have web standards, PWA is not even a thing officially... no such thing as PWA

actually, no such thing explicitly as web app, either... "installing" web apps is also non-existent officially, it is a very misleading buzzword

if you could call something web app it is a website that was switched to a "standalone UX" from a browser tab UX, according to this non-standard draft (!) https://www.w3.org/TR/appmanifest/

last time I checked, zero manifest members were mandatory... the ones you would use are "name" and "icon" which is how your homescreen button etc. would show up

nothing will be installed (but if we use this word, how on earth is "installation" difficult, you press a button and it is "installed": really fast I guess since nothing will be downloaded extra or installed... all that happens is you get some OS integratin in app discovery UI or a homescreen button or it actually depends on the OS and you can launch the website directly in standalone mode as an "app"... it is still browser run, browser sandboxed etc. just browser UI you have not

the real "progressivity" is entangled from standalone... the website may be a beast or a shitty scam site that just wanted homescreen presence and send you notifications (same with native, depends on developers not distribution platform used)

so objectively bullshit calling web apps in general terrible, difficult, something people would not use...

practically every website is a potential web app if they add a manifest file with 2 members and people use websites all the time...

the question is how good a website written, is it responsive, can it do offline etc... there are so many web capabilities now...

whether a website or a standalone website is good, easy, something people would use depends 100% on the quality... no website or web app is inherently something you described

> your comment is terrible and a big tell you have no idea of web technology

You can't attack another user like that on this site, and we ban accounts that do, so please don't do it again.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

accepting the moderation, in my defense: I just saw I added a smiley at the end of the problematic sentence, which I actually probably did to remove sharpness but still being able to formulate myy strong conclusion/opinion

of course it is also possible to just argue against somebody with less emotions and being more polite, without saying such things which I will 100% try in the future! my personal style is also harsh but I never intend to be offensive and surely have zero joy in attacking, insulting or making other people small

harsh honesty is difficult to separate from attacks so it is legit to ban this style altogether

ok!

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