Apple Vision Pro users return headsets, say they cause extreme headaches | Hacker News Reader

Apple Vision Pro users return headsets, say they cause extreme headaches

nypost.com

32 pointsmikhael35 comments

There are always returns / buyers remorse for practically every product ever. The salient question is what % has been returned so far. 5%? That'd be hugely problematic for apple. 0.001%? whatever. Articles like this are entirely useless.

I would also experience extreme headaches if I had spent $3500 for a vr/ar headset.

Plus sales tax

Completely random and sadly I didn't document the process as I didn't notice until it was too late but I worked on a VR app for 3 years from 2016 to 2019, had an oculus devkit etc and I spent a good bit of time in that thing, fast forward to when the project got canned I started noticed whenever I read white text on a dark background [1] my vision got extremely blurry to where I literally couldn't make out anything and I had to pause for a few minutes, turns out I had astigmatism which I never had a problem with prior, I didn't find any supporting literature to connect the two when I last checked a couple years back but googling now I'm seeing lots of cases about severe eye strain, deteriorating vision and headaches, that being said that ended my vr days and I haven't looked back.

[1] https://jessicaotis.com/academia/never-use-white-text-on-a-b...

Heck we used to be told not to sit too close to televisions to prevent vision problems. Now we’re strapping televisions right in front of our eyes.

Reminds me when ergonomics was a huge topic. Then everyone got laptops, smartphones and tablets, and we barely hear about it anymore. Gets in the way of profits

Unsurprisingly.

$3,500+ for the first version of Apple's mixed reality distortion headset was only for either the Apple fanatics and techies willing to try it out with very little users or Vision-specific apps available.

Probably made sense for companies to purchase it to build or port their app to the Vision-based products, but for consumers at this time, never made any sense unless you can stomach losing $3K+ on tech that is planned to be obsolete very quickly and is especially the first version of Apple's product line.

Would make more sense to jump in once there is a cheaper Apple Vision-based product that is accessible and cheaper than 'Vision Pro'. Probably without the 'Pro'.

Headaches and nausea is pretty normal for a VR headset right?

Even new glasses can cause headaches.

I think if your new glasses cause headaches your optometrist might have fucked up something, either your prescription/diagnosis or the tech who installed the lenses in the frame didn't center them to your IPD/distortion angle correctly.

Not necessarily true. Sometimes new prescriptions can take some time to adjust to if it's been a long time since the last prescription. Once you settle in they are 100% rock solid but it can be a few days of weirdness as your eyes adjust.

The biggest thing is that your eyes will naturally "strengthen" to make up for loss of acuity with an old prescription and a new prescription will correct that immediately and thus you end up with a mismatch that takes awhile to settle.

I have an HTC Vive and I've experienced headaches and nausea from VR at different times. After that I'll take a long break. And then after a while I forget how bad it felt and try VR again and then have the negative response and take another long break. I never did get my VR legs.

I need to look more into tweaking the eye width on the device.

If it is, then returns of the product will be pretty normal too.

[dupe]

Lots of other examples/posts on this today:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39384158

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386217

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39380556

This article is in the NYPost. Not exactly known for their careful accurate news gathering. It quotes a couple of Reddit posts without even tracking down the people behind the posts for clarification. It's basically clickbait.

> It quotes a couple of Reddit posts without even tracking down the people behind the posts for clarification. It's basically clickbait.

How exactly is this article clickbait?

Unless you believe that the Verge article [0] is also click-bait since their sources are also social media posts as well. People have been complaining about motion-sickness on social media sites for years.

Sounds like this is a weak reason to flag this post.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro...

"Extreme headaches" == "Buyers remorse for a $3,500 device"

Exactly. I’ve worn all kinds of VR/AR headsets (including the AVP) and never once had even a minor headache from the experience, and haven’t heard of that happening to anyone else.

Aparently the vision pro is very front heavy. My only reference is the index but that used to give me headaches before i put a counterweight on the back.

Thanks for the tip on the counter weight.

You mean the battery on a cord?

I bought one, and will also be returning it.

No physical headaches, and the UI and build quality is just amazing. However, it just feels like a devkit atm.

Update: I remembered how much I hate being on a plane without them, so I kept it.

More like for sponging $3500 on what's basically a dev-kit with no useful apps yet.

Imagine buying an iPhone today for $1000+ and the Appstore is empty. Wouldn't be very successful either.

Adjusted for inflation, iphone 1 was about 900. There was no app store.

yes, they have buyers remorse because they paid $4k to give themselves headaches.

I find it quite sad that you have 14 days max to return, though I appreciate why from a business perspective. Why extend that risk?

But as a consumer, I absolutely do not have time to fully test/sit with this device in enough contexts to find my issues with it. Could be a month before I can finally get to it, or the software finally reaches a point that it reveals the flaws and my mini mortgage just turned into a paperweight

I think in the EU it's illegal to provide less than a month of trial period, but I could be wrong, does this count as defective?

That's not true. 14 days is the legal mandatory EU return period for online purchases. Any longer than 14 days is a voluntary courtesy from the shop, like 30 days from amazon.

Also returns don't apply to hygiene senzitive products that are worn on the body, products tailor made or made to order, so those Zeiss lenses tailored to your diopters or the facial interface sized to your face plus the hygiene angle where the strap and facial interface on the used items will be full of sweat and oils, might legally disqualify you from a refund.

I'm sure Apple has taken steps to account for large numbers of returns and have a program to refurbish and resell them back on the market, but based on these limitations they're not mandated to accept them by law.

There's no such a thing as "trial period" in the EU. You have 14 days to return the product without a reason but only if it was an online purchase. If you bought the goggles in a brick-and-mortar store you'd be out of luck.

However, if the product is defective you have 2 years to return it regardless of where you bought it.

One thing that may complicate the remote purchase law for the Apple Vision Pro is that there is an exemption for specially crafted products (as well as things like cosmetics for hygiene reasons). I think the prescription lenses would fall under this category, as stores cannot be reasonably expected to sell those to someone else.

I'm not 100% sure how the purchase process works, but from what I've heard they tell you to scan your head using the iPhone's depth camera thingy to get the headset properly fitted for you. I think they're just selecting presets for generic parts, but if they do any kind of customisation for you as part of the process, you may not be able to force them to accept your return.

>Why extend that risk?

What risk? Wouldn't it increase the likelihood of a purchase to begin with?

That I don't know, but I assume there's a balance that involves wanting to shorten the window of return where you avoid potentially giving the user enough time to decide to return. People are faster to do than undo. I'm faster spending than I am returning.

Well, if this gives you any solace in other countries you can’t return even in the next second once your payment is through. (I know, I know. It should rather be better in other countries and even much better in USA).

Out of interest, what other countries did the headset release in?

Is this head/eye-gear is the only thing that has return policy in USA and not elsewhere? :)

To answer your question - a worldwide launch outside USA is yet to be done.

> in other countries you can’t return even in the next second once your payment is through.

You may want to be more specific about what countries in particular. Many other countries allow returns, even for software, past 14 days. The USA is actually one of the worst first-world countries for consumer rights and returns.

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