Comment by guardiangod | Hacker News Reader

Comment by guardiangod | Hacker News Reader

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I just want to give a shoutout to BC's Civil Resolution Tribunal. They take their job seriously, and make it as easy as possible for plaintiff to submit a complaint.

I once had the misfortune of generating a batch of defective enterprise-grade SSD from a S company. That S company requires all RMA to go through the sales channel you bought the SSD from, but the sales company we used was out of business.

S has refused all attempts to RMA by stonewalling us saying that we need to return the drives thru the bankrupted company. When we explained that the company is bankrupted, S just ignored us. When we created a new RMA request, S's rep says we already have an open case, and that we need to return the drives blah blah blah.

After 5 months, in a fit of rage I typed up a 2000 words complaint, gathered all the emails/phone calls/photo evidences, and submitted a complaint to CRT ($75 fee). I wasn't expecting much, but within 3 weeks I got a call from a corporate lawyer in S company's Toronto office, asked me for the situation, apologized profusely, and asked if I can drop the case if they RMA all affected SSDs.

That day was great, to say the least.

Aside:

The CRT posts all their cases (that reached arbitration) here- https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/en/nav.do

Reading the cases is quite am entertaining time passer.

BC CRT is great when the happy pathway happens. They send legal letters to all parties so they are able to arbitrate, and that letter might be enough to get things resolved.

I had the misfortune of trying to use them for a company which had just stopped responding and in the end even though I did get the default judgment in my favour, actually enforcing the judgment still required me to go through the normal courts (which in my case was not worth the cost). But the process of dealing with CRT was nothing short of delightful.

Hmm, browsing through some of those cases, I'm starting to notice a pattern of Air Canada not taking these tribunal proceedings entirely seriously.

From this case:

> I find that if Air Canada wanted to a raise a contractual defense, it needed to provide the relevant portions of the contract. It did not, so it has not proven a contractual defence. [...]

> In its boilerplate Dispute Response, Air Canada denies “each and every” one of Mr. Moffatt’s allegations generally. However, it did not provide any evidence to the contrary.

From https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/crtd/en/item/5254...

> Despite having the opportunity to provide documentary evidence, Air Canada did not do so.

From https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/crtd/en/item/5249... and https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/crtd/en/item/5188...

> Having reviewed the evidence, I am satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that [Air Canada] received the Dispute Notice and did not respond to it by the deadline set out in the CRT's rules.

From https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/crtd/en/item/5230...

> Based on the proof of notice form submitted by the applicant, I am satisfied that [Air Canada] received the Dispute Notice and did not respond to it by the deadline set out in the CRT's rules.

(I also found a fun one that hinges on an Air Canada employee's apparent inability to do basic arithmetic: https://decisions.civilresolutionbc.ca/crt/crtd/en/item/5225...)

That last one was great

> In his statement, Mr. Mackoff described distinct conversations he had with each employee, provided the supervisor’s name, and submitted the diagram he drew while trying to explain to the employees how to count the 10 calendar days. As Mr. Mackoff’s witness statement includes so much detail, and as Air Canada has produced no contrary statement, I accept that Air Canada refused to transport both Mr. and Mrs. Mackoff on February 15, 2022 and so breached its contract with them.

In the case at hand, it sounds like they decided they wouldn't spend over $800 to avoid losing another $800. Which is reasonable, I suppose.

(But another constraint of the CRT is that you can't bring representation -- so while it was an Air Canada employee involved, it wasn't their legal team.)

I see a lot of stuff like that in civil litigation in David v. Goliath situations.

Usually the large entity puts in little effort and relies on the fact that its (much more expensive) lawyers generally have more sway with the court (judge), are more persuasive even when their arguments are nonsense, and can just drag cases on for years until the smaller party is burned out.

One nice touch about BC's CRT is that neither side is allowed to be represented by lawyers without specific approval by the tribunal.

That's interesting. What does that mean in practice, do they send people that have a lot of legal training and experience, but aren't bar members?

Honestly not sure, but with only $800 at risk I can't imagine them even sending a paralegal.

Actually doing all of that would be quite expensive, so they don't and rely on people giving up or not knowing how to exert their rights.

S is such a disaster that I have established a personal policy of staying away from S and never buying their things (TV fridges phones SSDs printers… anything they make). This policy has drastically improved my sanity. They produce expensive junk and have no regard for quality or security/privacy. I’d still buy things that have S components in them but not whole S devices.

Yes - my house (was) full of Samsung appliances - Stove, Fridge, Microwave, Washer, Dryer.

All garbage. They are all falling apart now or became became uneconomically repairable within 5 years. Every single appliance repair businesses I called flat out wouldn't touch the fridge for example.. Apparently they don't provide service information or parts to 3rd parties (at least for the fridge).

I have moved onto a different brand, but waiting to see if it's any more reliable..

When we were purchasing a clothes washer and dryer, Samsung had a special promotion. The sales rep at the store told us that the Samsung machines got the most complaints and she would recommend the LG machines. But we wanted that promotion, it was oh so nice. We bought a 5-year warranty just in case.

Sure enough, it's year 3 and the washer has stopped working. Repair guy came and decided he needs to order new parts to fix it. It's been a week or so without doing any laundry. Glad we purchased the extra warranty, but maybe we should have gone with the LG like the sales lady recommended.

The long-term brand you want is Miele. They're not cheap but my parents' dishwasher is approaching 30 years old.

Without knowing anything particular about Miele, all this anecdote suggests is that they were great thirty years ago. They could well have enshittified between now and then.

I'm at the point where I don't trust any brands at all anymore. The next time I need to make a major appliance purchase I'll buy a subscription to Consumer Reports and blindly follow their recommendation - I still trust them.

But isnt that the crux of the matter? You buy what consumer reports say, and the reviewers have no way of knowing if it will break down in 3 years. No one rates their gadget after three years so we have a massive blind spot where the best thing is still word of mouth.

My parents bought an Miele washing machine, rock solid even after pushing ten years.

Yeah, totally. That's where branding used to be a valuable signal, under the assumption that a company wouldn't deliberately choose to destroy their long-term value. I don't believe that anymore, so I'll place what remains of my trust in reviewers I know are independent (God help us all if it turns out CR is taking kick-backs or something) and figure know more about, say, washing machines than I do.

Miele now has cheaper models so you may be right to be cautious.

Personally I have had issues with Bosch and don't trust them anymore.

The result is that now either I car about specific look, some specific features, etc and pay a bit more for them, or I just go for cheapest.

Apparently Miele has started to have quality issues. But they still might be a good bet, if only for the fact that they are (probably?) the last family run business in the market.

I did not know that! Thanks. Indeed, "family run", depending on where they are in the internal-to-the-family management-transition cycle, is more encouraging to me than "publicly held". ("Private equity" is always and everywhere a huge red flag.)

It's depressing to me that we have to think about those things. I mean, "buyer beware" has always been the case, but it seems like we have to be more wary (or more wary of more factors) than we did a decade or two ago. Or maybe I'm just getting older. I dunno.

It might be just the normal process of capitalism in which you see take-over after take-over leading to ever bigger companies?

"Capitalism" is very much in the eye of the beholder, and different regulatory models create market economies with different incentives. What you're talking about is "normal" in certain places.

I didn't mean that, though, and I don't think it's what the other people in this thread did, either. I was thinking of the practice whereby private equity funds purchase companies and exploit the "brand equity" they've built up over the long term, whilst deliberately enshittifying them, in order to make a short-term profit for the new owners. That's been normalized, in some places, but I wish it were not, and would prefer that financial markets be regulated in ways that make it un-profitable.

Get SpeedQueen next time. There’s still quality out there, need to stop listening to sales and do research.

I also have had the same experience with my Samsung appliances. I paid top dollar for a nice looking set of laundry machines only to find out that they have garbage components inside of them that are bad by design.

I had a squeaking drier fixed under warranty, only to have the same issue reoccur multiple times, because the rollers are just junk. It needs a new set like clockwork every year and a half or so, I have the replacement procedure memorized now.

The washer seems to be allergic to water and soap. I keep the unit in a dry location, leveled and raised off of the floor, yet, the body of the unit is rusting out, the chrome finish on the door is peeling, and when I clean it, the cycle labels wipe right off the front panel. The pump has also failed due to rust on the motor.

Absolute trash. I probably would have been better off with a $400 top loader.

> yet, the body of the unit is rusting out

Happened to my ~2016 Samsung. Turns out a hose clamp wasn't properly installed and water was dripping onto the steel floorpan and rusting everything nearby.

Fixed it and all rusting halted.

This isn't Harry Potter and they aren't Voldemort! Are all the replies correct in assuming this is Samsung? You can say their name.

What is a S company?

Samsung

I've also had to deal with their lack of Canadian RMA for 2 SSDs. Had to go back and forth with them and trying to convince Amazon and the Amazon seller to replace the defective drives.

Not buying any more Samsung memory products due to their essential non existent warranty in Canada

Buy through Memory Express if you've got a store nearby, just need to keep the receipt for the warranty period. They have a price matching policy for items that have the same SKU as well.

MemEx is an authorized dealer so they'll take it back and send it back to Samsung for warranty work if you buy from them.

Took about 5 months of endless back and forth to get them to replace a defective SSD in Australia too, despite very clear consumer law guarantees here obligating them to help. Absolutely hopeless company to deal with.

Seems like an abbreviation for a USD$400B+ company that manufactures SSDs, but with the commenter not specifically mentioning (presume, smartly, to avoid SLAPP lawsuit/libel).

Samsung

Could be Seagate and SanDisk too ...

I expected this to be SanDisk. I bought one USB from them and after a few writes it locked itself from writing further.

Apparently I'm not alone and the only fix is to throw the thing away.

Even as a smaller-government proponent, I've been a big proponent of things like the CRT.

One of the core functions of the government is enforcement of contracts. While there are the courts, they are out of reach for most people either due to skill level or financial constraints.

Having a simple, low cost, easily accessible way to resolve contract issues puts every member of society on a more even footing when it comes to economic interactions. If we're going to build our society based on capitalism and the ability for parties to enter into contracts for things like employment, buying/selling, housing, etc, having an efficient means to resolve disputes seems like a no-brainer.

Can we please name the company rather than make people guess?

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