> I would accept any design compromise for the webcam, make it grainy / low-res
I think this is a minority opinion.
I personally don't remark the notch anymore.
I think this is a minority opinion.
I personally don't remark the notch anymore.
Another solution that would have been cool and expensive: if they put a camera in each corner of the screen. Then at least they could have the rounded corners they always wanted. Also four cameras could be used for cool 3d effects and AI to keep your eyes looking at the center of the screen.
Nvidia has been doing the eyes with a single generic camera for over a year now: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/jan-2023-nvidia-br...
It would significantly increase the screen bezels because instead of just one notch you now have to bring in all four edges to accomodate the cameras.
Few will realize how Apple milked you twice - once to accept the horrible design (that they created), and again to accept how wonderful they are for eliminating the problem.
Compare phones, where manufacturers have actually created a narrative that camera cutouts are a desirable feature. Maybe people who bought new phones because they like the cutout design are getting milked twice.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+incremental+innovation
The MacBook notch is a clever design that increases the size of the screen without increasing the size of the overall case. There are some, relatively minor, downsides.
1. Some applications have an unusual number of menu items. The system takes this into account and renders those menu items to the right of the notch. In many cases, those are the less often used menu items “Window” and “Help” so the impact is lower.
2. When there are large numbers of app icons in the menubar, they may not all fit and some are truncated. This has always been a problem with that feature and many people have solved this by using utilities such as Bartender that hide extra app icons and move them to secondary panels.
3. There is an additional visual element on the screen. Many people quickly learn to ignore the notch and soon forget that it is there. For those who are bothered by it, there are a couple of simple ways to reduce the visibility of it. One method is to change the resolution of the screen so that all content appears below the notch. The downside of that solution is that there is less screen area. Another method is to use a utility to turn the menubar black. This makes the notch blend into the menubar so that it is much less visible.
The notch is not bad design: it is a design compromise. In reality the presence of the notch increases the overall screen space with the reduced bezel. That electronics wizardry and physics do not currently permit under-screen high definition cameras means that you need bezel space for it. That Apple managed to get it to be ~35mm x ~9mm is impressive. On every other laptop in the world with a webcam at the top, that ~9mm is required forehead on the laptop, meaning at least a ~9mm bezel.
And Apple is not rushing to replace this. After all, we've had three generations of Apple laptops released with the notch. Sure, if/when they prove they can do a quality under-screen camera, they will update this (after they update the iPhone family). But calling this "bad design" is suggesting that you could do better.
I can do one better. Don't buy it! Ta-da! Notch gone from your life and you can be happy again.
Consider that you are wrong and are not adept to designing products when compromises need to be made.
In the kindest way possible, consider that you may have OCD or similar. Like others have said, we haven't noticed or thought about this once in years of using it all day everyday. Preferring worse function (read: less display) over form (read: no notch) is not the galaxy brain you think it is.
Sorry dude, I'm having a real tough time taking your pro-notch argument seriously. Lets agree to disagree here. I'm tapping out.
I do notice it with my current background, but it doesn't bother me.
Removing the notch (by removing the webcam) is not an option that most people are interested in. Removing the notch by putting a forehead (and therefore shrinking total available screen space) is not an option that most people are interested in. What is your design brilliance for a relatively lightweight 14" laptop with minimal bezels and a high quality web camera in the centre of the screen?
You don't have one, because you have convinced yourself that anyone who disagrees with you "likes" the notch.
Literally everyone who has said that you're wrong has said some variation of:
1. Haven't really noticed it in X time using it 2. It doesn't bother me, because I have more screen space for the main windows, and the menu / task icons are now in space that wasn't available before 3. It's not a selling point for the laptop, but neither is it a disaster, and it's barely noticeable.
You have called it bad design. Pretty much everyone who has responded to your repetitive message has said "it's a compromise". Bad design is anti-human. This isn't anti-human, it's a compromise.
Statistically, no one is going to immediately buy a new version of a MacBook that does not have the notch just because it does not have the notch. They will do so because it offers a substantial boost over their current configuration (speed, RAM, display space, storage), and they may not even notice that there's not a notch anymore…unless they have used tools like Bartender or Hand Mirror that can take advantage of your cursor being under the notch to trigger useful functionality.
If you actually had a useful suggestion, I’m sure that Apple would love to hear from you (I’ll bet they've tried a lot of ideas that you have had and many more you haven't; they're not perfect, but they are really good at design experimentation and industrial processes). Until then, you’re just another Abe Simpson complaining about things on the Internet.
I routinely jump between different devices with and without notches. The notched devices continue to highlight the flawed UX each time. For people who unconditionally love Apple (quite a few on HN) or don't care either way, its not a problem.
>You have called it bad design. Pretty much everyone who has responded to your repetitive message has said "it's a compromise".
Its true, 10 people on an online forum disagreed with me.
>Bad design is anti-human.
Anti-human? You've lost me sorry.
>Statistically, no one is going to immediately buy a new version of a MacBook that does not have the notch just because it does not have the notch. They will do so because it offers a substantial boost over their current configuration (speed, RAM, display space, storage), and they may not even notice that there's not a notch anymore…unless they have used tools like Bartender or Hand Mirror that can take advantage of your cursor being under the notch to trigger useful functionality.
Yes, I agree and said so. Its not enough of an irritant to disqualify the purchase.
> I’m sure that Apple would love to hear from you (I’ll bet they've tried a lot of ideas that you have had and many more you haven't; they're not perfect, but they are really good at design experimentation and industrial processes). Until then, you’re just another Abe Simpson complaining about things on the Internet.
Apple doesn't want to hear from me because they already know the notch is ridiculous. They're working on removing it, they have stated all but publicly - because Apple never acknowledges their flaws unless they are sued.
If you were to look at any other forum, the comments seem about 10:1 for people who are not bothered by the notch. The other people who are not coming onto a forum to complain seem to not be bothered enough to post about it.
> Apple doesn't want to hear from me because they already know the notch is ridiculous. They're working on removing it, they have stated all but publicly - because Apple never acknowledges their flaws unless they are sued.
It may bug you so much that you call it “ridiculous” but most of us recognize that it is a compromise between conflicting constraints and the downsides are minor. Certainly Apple would like to resolve that compromise with fewer downsides, but to do so requires them developing the tech to put those components under the screen. That doesn’t exist yet without bringing in new compromises. Just like on the phone, once they can hide those components they will. In the meantime, we can either continue to get worked up about it or relax and get on with our work.