I appreciate the fact that this technology could make mobile devices more durable because it has less moving parts, but I don't feel going any thinner than what's currently available is desirable from an ergonomics perspective. I just don't feel as comfortable holding a phone that's 7mm thick, or less.
And I certainly don't think it's worth the risk of it folding in my pocket.
I think phones are obviously too thin already as evidenced by the thick covers covering nearly every one of them.
So having phone+cover being the ideal size is realistically what will be best for most people.
That may leave the bare phone a bit on the thin side, but that’s a necessary trade-off.
You can also combine phone and wallet and still have it be a nice and reasonable thickness.
May be but I think they will utilize the space for more sensors and optical camera equipment.
Compared to early 2010s the current average smartphone battery capacity is 3-4x higher.
Do we know how much of that is due to increase in average battery volume vs increase in energy density?
I think this can also be corroborated by the fact that there are less and less small smartphones options. And while there are some, they're plagued by poor battery performance. See latest iPhone SE.
There's indeed, by this logic, reason to believe less space taken by other components lead to better battery life by the sheer volume available as a result.
I'm impressed and annoyed. That said, I have very much enjoyed not having a cover. It feels so much better in the pocket and in the hand
I've broken two phones in my life; both of them had on robust cases. The first time, I knocked my phone off of my desk at work. It fell three feet to the carpet and shattered the screen. The second time, I missed my pocket and dropped the phone 2-3 feet. Completely shattered the back glass and sent a hairline crack through the screen.
I've dropped my phones so many other times, in much worse ways (sometimes with no case), yet in these two instances they break. I'm almost at the point of not using cases, but I know my anecdotal experiences don't reflect reality.
External cases provide protection from scratches and scrapes in low energy falls. That is most of what I’ve experience so I put on a thin case for that. An external case can provide some cushion to dissipate some of the impact energy to reduce the change of deformation. That is where thicker is usually better. For me, that scenario is less likely so I don’t bother with thick cases.
When I did my last upgrade the box was damaged and the phone bent at about a 20 degree angle. Made me a bit nervous about how sturdy they actually are.
I have dropped and broken so many fn iphones - once, I had just picked up a new phone and went to dinner where the restaraunt had concrete floors... I had that phone for ~6 hours.
I dropped it and broke it because I hate cases, and the iphone is so damned slippery.
I berated Jony Ive (I sent him an email) and told him that the lack of a lanyard bracket was BS. (This was also when I was flying a lot to asia, and so many phones had lanyard brackets...
I think Ive gone through ~25 phones? I have a stack of several right here: https://i.imgur.com/QvODonY.jpeg - plus the one I took the pic with...
I think I have several more strewn about my tech graveyard...
What sucks is that I have called phone repair places what to do with them all, and they say they are all worthless.
"Throw them out"
I just feel bad for all those kids in China who died at the assembly line to make these worthless products requiring suicide nets. (Thats not a joke, that is really fn sad that people at Flextronics (who use to build a bunch of stuff for Lockheed as well) just killed themselves.)
(Oh and I had a MBP that was under recall for battery fires, CATCH fire in my bed when I was asleep...
It was also an AirBNB and I woke upto my MBP on fire.
Apple held it for two months, then even though the machine was under recall for fire, refused to replace it telling me I had the option to buy a new machine at full price.
They claimed that a moisture sensor went off so warranty (and recall) void.
it took them TWO months to make that statement and try to get me to buy a new machine.
Almost every iPhone since then has gotten thicker with a larger battery.
You can always use a BT repeater for headphones too, I went that route at first along with dongles and gave up. I miss it but I moved on, reluctantly.
I don't believe that, either the space is used for something else, or the phone is in some way made smaller.
Fo if you consider a phone with say an 8 hour battery life, I would imagine the extra space of a jack gives maybe 10? 20? minutes of battery life? while adding an extra layer of complexity viz. Bluetooth (wireless interference, potential pairing and charging issues etc).
To extend the analogy, would you be okay if laptop manufacturers removed LAN ports as wifi "works just as well"? (Wifi is likely probably much closer to ethernet, unlike BT/3.5mm.)
BTW, some devices like iPads that don't have cellular slots... have a plastic shim/object in that place. So sometimes it isn't empty space, it's worse - it's (marginally) extra weight.
Additionally they threw in 2 extra side buttons that can be used for the camera but also mapped to other functions—like for me that is the push-to-talk button for Mumble.
Granted, this is a weird edgecase.
I’m talking about adapting to new phones, you’re talking about why headphone jacks are good.
Your argument is "new thing is good".
His argument is "new thing existed before old thing was removed, so removing old thing didn't make new thing better".
I used a wireless headphones when some of HN visitors didn't even exists, I have a plenty of experience with them. No, I'm not happy with wireless headphones, partially because my old-style wired headphones works always. Not just 'always, though sometimes I need to re-pair them, or find the charging case for a super-mega-fast-charge for 10 minutes, or find the left one despite I swear I placed them both in the case' but always.
Or how with wired headphones one needs to remove to be able to step away from the computer, while with a wireless one I can keep listening anywhere around my home.
I had used a pair of wireless earbuds for a year & I can’t tell you the number of calls I had to cancel early due to listening to music earlier & now not having enough charge. I’ve also had botched firmware upgrades & an app with trackers needed to installed just to get those updates, something analog didn’t deal with. The technology is far from the total-upgrade you are pitching--especially when all your digital apparatuses have a jack, the analog convenience of pulling the plug from one to the next without the fiddling of Bluetooth menus.
First world problems. Also they still can work, so in a pinch you can just insert them tangled.
> all my headphones failed due to a "contact" issue the jack developed
If all your headphones are susceptible for this then it looks like the problem is not in the headphones.
> Or the number of times my headphones got yanked because I was walking with them on and the cables got entangled in something.
Yep, they are wired.
> one needs to remove to be able to step away from the computer
Yes, they are wired. Are you annoyed what you need to stand up to step away from computer?
Wired headphones has some disadvantages compared to wireless ones, but the problem lies again in what Apple said 'fuck you consumers you will eat it and ask for more', consumers ate it and asked for more and idiots followed the suit, too.
You know, BT (if we are talking only about phones) headphones are an old thing, 20 years if we count only BT EDR. All^W Most of those years anyone could choose the tech they like more. But now Apple fanbois and you tell me what I need to ditch my wire headphones, because wireless are working better for you. No, it doesn't work better for me. More so, I tried it multiple times and I can surely tell what it's not not just as an opinion, but backed by my actual experience.
And I love what I can forget my headphones for a month and they would still work even if I forgot to charge them the last time I used them, lol.
NB: the last year I smashed my phone up to the broken screen, first time in my life (Ericsson A1018 doesn't count, it was only a battery cover clip). I smashed it not because it was laying on the table while I stepped away with my headphones already inserted both in the phone and my ears, but because I was quite drunk (or more like drunk AF) and didn't noticed that. Is this a table problem or my phone problem (hey, only 1+ meter high!) or it's my problem? While it wouldn't happen with a wireless ones, the common sense says it's not the headphones' fault.
In a thread about modern cellphone technology is _hilarious_.
Thank you.
Second actually. But not sure how cold war allegiances have anything to do with the topic in question.
> Yes, they are wired.
That is the point. If we treat the downsides of one technology as given and baseline then of course the other technology will look deficient compared to it. But if we look at the pros and cons of both technologies we might see why people prefer one to the other.
> Apple said 'fuck you consumers you will eat it and ask for more', consumers ate it and asked for more and idiots followed the suit, too.
Not really classy calling people idiots. Especially when you are just chatting with someone who is taking the point of view you are calling idiotic.
> you tell me what I need to ditch my wire headphones,
Done no such a thing. You do whatever you want to and I'm wishing you the best with it. I'm merely explaining why I prefer my wireless headphones. You know, just comparing notes on existence among fellow travellers.
> I love what I can forget my headphones for a month and they would still work even if I forgot to charge them the last time I used them, lol.
I will give you that. That is a bummer. I walked today to the shop an wanted to listen to my DnD podcast and my headphone announced that it is running low on battery. I was worried it will cut out on me and I will have to wait before I can learn how the intrepid heroes deal with the nightmare king. Luckily it kept working for the walk. But yeah that is a bummer.
i love my wf-1000xm4s, but i also love my catos, which played a large factor in why i chose the phone i did, the choice to pick one or the other depending on how i'm feeling matters to me. i dont want bluetooth audio to go away, but at the same time i dont want wired to go either. maybe one day i'll get a dedicated DAP and be able to freely pick whatever phone without suffering as much of a consequence but in the meantime thats too expensive and bulky for me to justify
Told by whom? You can still get wired earbuds for iPhone, just that they don’t use 3.5mm jack. Even Apple offers ones.
3.5mm jack don’t seem to be missed at all by the majority of consumers. If you are in the minority there can still be options. Plenty as the matter of fact. Cost you money of course.
>> first world problem (noun)
>> A frustration or complaint only experienced by privileged individuals in wealthy countries.
> But if we look at the pros and cons of both technologies we might see why people prefer one to the other.
But if you take out the 3.5mm jack out of the phone then the comparison is moot.
> Not really classy calling people idiots
Sometimes it's needed to tell the king about his new clothes.
> Especially when you are just chatting with someone who is taking the point of view you are calling idiotic.
Only if you take it to your heart, which you shouldn't. I don't think you are responsible for Apple decisions. Though if you are defending that decision then...
> Done no such a thing
Not you personally, of course, but it's a common thing among people. The thread started on that comment.
> I will give you that. That is a bummer.
Yes, pro and cons.
I've outlined the pros of a wired headphones what works for me. It doesn't mean what everyone should throw out their wireless ones, but that also means what I would defend the presence of 3.5 jack in the smartphones, especially if the absence is dictated by a moot 'we need it thinner' logic. Especially if the company what did that boasts about it's ability to bend the technology to pack the things in a slab plastic and aluminium. Surely that company could find a way to pack a 3.5mm jack in a 7.8mm deep phone. Just like thay did it in that device, 5.4mm deep: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP656?locale=en_US
Or you could have wired that last as long as your phone battery does.
No. Wireless buds are evil. They get lost. They loose battery life over time, usually asymmetrically. And then there is the horror of "pairing" Bluetooth devices without a proper interface, holding buttons down and such. I love my Sony over-ear noise cancelling headphones, but when away from my desk I opt for wired devices every time.
I thought I would miss it, but I genuinely just don't give a shit about the lack of audio jack.
There is only one situation where wired is needed: Charging and Listening at the same time.
Otherwise, people can still use wired headphones all they want, especially now with USB C headphones. Even charging and listening at the same time can just be done with a splitter.
The premise is just a talking point because people want to use AUX. Well I still want to use VGA, doesn't mean they should be putting them on video cards.
* Invested in quality audio equipment that they'd like like to continue using without a crappy dongle
* Bluetooth dongles don't have the same level of integration that EarPods do, for instance (e.g., button presses don't work the same way)
* Lightning or USB-C headphone adapters are easy to lose track of
* Lightning or USB-C headphone adapters are awkward sticking out of your phone and risk breaking the port
* Dislike like the environmental impact of moving to a model of disposable equipment with non-replaceable batteries
* Tired of the inconvenience of dropping wireless ear phones and not being able to find them (e.g., this happens frequently on flights¹)
* Weary of dealing with Bluetooth issues (e.g., my AirPod Pros randomly disconnect from my iPhone with regularity and I have to click multiple things to switch from my phone to my work laptop)
It's fine if these don't apply to you, but they're a little more substantive than the Luddite hand-wringing you suggest.. And for them the trade-off to get a slightly slimmer phone wasn't worth it. That's not to say there aren't advantages to wireless headphones, but supporting one doesn't mean having to preclude the other.
¹ -- https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/16uuyse/...
due to the nature of wireless communications, real time audio is effectively impossible and as such there is almost always some amount of noticeable latency when performing tasks that rely on real time audio (eg music production). a little of latency is okay sometimes but the amount that wireless devices introduce is typically on the offer of maybe 100-200ms and when you're trying to play a section or some such it makes it damn near impossible to hit a note on the mark you're aiming for.
On long calls, I will have delayed audio or glitches, sometimes from facetime, or the network but because of your comment I tried to use the speaker and it was better. I'll try disconnecting them occasionally thanks to your comment. Thanks!
They likely can get better audio with a dongle.
All audio sources on a phone are digital. When you use headphones with a built-in jack the analog outcomes comes via a DAC and amplifier built into the phone.
When you use a Lightning or USB-C dongle the DAC and amplifier are in the dongle.
If the former case you are forever limited to the quality of the DAC and amplifier built into the phone. In the latter case there are higher end options available.
Forgetting doesn't help with adaptors which aren't really standardized, especially the passive ones. And the active ones are expensive..
My work phone still has a jack plug. I don't use it much but the times I do use it I'm really in need of it because I don't have anything else to use.
i personally wouldn't mind shoving even more battery in the area where the speaker is or adding more heat sink especially on the higher end ones
It’s not necessarily just about protection, it’s also about personalisation of the exterior beyond what the manufacturer provides.
This is how I used to carry my flip-phones, which were around that thickness which closed.
Recently someone handed me an old Samsung Galaxy S7 to use for testing. It was a revelation: I wanted and dearly missed having a phone that thin. I really hope someone pushes for thinness again. I miss the iPhone 6 (Edit: a big part of this might be down to the weight, the squared off edges, and the enormous camera bump)
Same thing with laptops. I updated from a MacBook Air M1 to a MacBook Pro 14". The 14" is fast enough to justify its bulk — but barely. Every time I pick up the Air it feels effortlessly portable, when I grab the MacBook Pro it just does not feel thin and light enough
And yes the Galaxy S21-24 are impressively light too.
And they are already foldable, so in your pocket they may count as 2x its unfolded thickness.
https://www.tmonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/htc10side...
I think thinnest smartphones era was around 2014-2016 when thin was touted as a feature. But then thin feature phones were hype in 2004, so maybe there is a 10 years cycle of going back to thin.
Thin metal, as Elon Musk is about to discover with the Cybertruck, is basically a dull knife.