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Comment by actualwitch | Hacker News Reader

If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken.

You're probably right because we've left. I was a Firefox advocate for the longest time. I used Firefox since v3.0, and before that Mozilla and Netscape. I only recently switched over to Brave in the past year or two. I'm doing my part to switch friends and family over too. The only thing Mozilla has accomplished in the past 10 years was releasing Rust, and that was before firing the whole team.

I don't have any particular opinion on Mitchel Baker, but...

> You're probably right because we've left

"We"? I certainly didn't and I'm not alone.

> I only recently switched over to Brave in the past year or two. I'm doing my part to switch friends and family over too

You don't say why. Why leave Firefox for Brave, and more importantly, why encourage people to do so?

Despite all Mozilla's flaws, Firefox is still great and contrary to Brave, it doesn't contribute to Google's browser monopoly.

Integrated adblocking, which is often mentioned, is not a good reason: it's faster and easier to install uBlock Origin on an existing Firefox install than to install a brand new browser and make your relatives change their habits.

What do you say to your relatives to justify this switch?

I'm trying to understand what I can take from your comment here.

> "We"? I certainly didn't and I'm not alone.

I was replying to the statement in the parent post:

>> If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken.

I stopped using Firefox. From this and other threads about Mozilla/Firefox, plenty of other HN people have too. It's not just Mitchel Baker. Mozilla has been under schizophrenic leadership for years, running in a hundred directions while neglecting their core product: Firefox. Firefox at its best broke IE's dominance, and at it's peak had 30% market share, and now it's what? 4%? If the trend continues, it's going to drop below Steam's Linux market share of 1%.

> You don't say why. Why leave Firefox for Brave, and more importantly, why encourage people to do so? > > Despite all Mozilla's flaws, Firefox is still great and contrary to Brave, it doesn't contribute to Google's browser monopoly.

I don't see Firefox having a long term future. Brave, Vivaldi, or one of these other Chrome reskins will assume Firefox's place as it slowly fades into a niche browser. Even Microsoft gave up and made Edge a Chrome reskin. Mozilla had the opportunity to have the best and most popular browser and they blew it. They abandoned Firefox OS and Servo. Somehow Rust survived.

> Integrated adblocking, which is often mentioned, is not a good reason: it's faster and easier to install uBlock Origin on an existing Firefox install than to install a brand new browser and make your relatives change their habits. > > What do you say to your relatives to justify this switch?

When they ask, and they do for some reason because I wound up being IT, I tell them I prefer to use Brave now. That it's a privacy focused variation of Chrome. Or if they complain about ads on Android's Youtube app, I tell them to use Youtube from Brave. When I setup a new computer for any of them I now install Brave along side whatever previous browser they used: Chrome, Edge, or Firefox. I used to always install Chrome and Firefox (with uBlock Origin of course).

What did brave accomplish that is worthy of advocacy? Shitcoin and ublock inspired adblock?

Two things. First, an Android browser that's as fast as Chrome (a reskin) with a built-in ad-blocker. Sure you can install uBlock Origin on Firefox for Android but it's noticeably slower than Chrome. Second, a continuation of the old Firefox spirit as a privacy focused browser. Firefox has since lost that spirit and has been chasing after Chrome since at least 57. The shitcoins are a passing fad. Just turn them off.

So you discount mozilla actually implementing and maintaining a separate multiplatform browser engine and a whole ass language for that and instead find more value in forking other people's work and adding rudimentary features on top of it? I would have imagined someone who used to be firefox advocate since 3.0 to be used to getting subpar performance.

Rust is independent now, and Mozilla fired most of that team a while ago. Mozilla has little to show for raking in $500 million a year from Google.

Firefox never was slow on the desktop in my experience. Chrome was faster for the first few years. SpiderMonkey always lagged behind V8 in benchmarks, but general performance of the browsers has been equal since the early or mid 2010s.

> First, an Android browser that's as fast as Chrome (a reskin) with a built-in ad-blocker

Bromite existed before Brave and was (still is, in the Cromite fork) better in every way.

I am suggesting that and I'm basing that on every Mozilla does x thread I've read for the last 2-3 years.

If it wasn't for the hatred, I would probably not even know this person's name.

If you judge things based on hn threads, you'd think google is going to be bankrupt tomorrow while having 0 users. It is still the most popular search engine in the world.

I think most people are quite aware google prints money with ads, and quite reasonably deride google for all the rest their bewildering product decisions

> If you are suggesting that people who still use firefox hate Mitchell Baker, you are mistaken.

I dunno about that. I'm a Firefox user and I dislike Mozilla as an organization and think that Mitchell Baker is completely incompetent. The modern browser space is a shitshow and Firefox is just the least worst option out there.

I would assume the vast majority of Mitchell Baker haters are FF users (or rust enthusiasts?). Why else would someone hate her?

It's part of the online 'game' to jump in on ridicule? You see it all the time, even on HN.

You're right. Some of us are using forks with Mozilla's telemetry removed.

I can assure you, the amount of people who daily forks of ff is even smaller than the amount of people who hate Mitchell Baker.

Can't tell if sarcasm. Long time user (and often evangelistic) of firefox and loathe the turns she took as ceo.

I don't know how to be any more clear, as someone who used firefox since 3.0 and talked to plenty people irl who use firefox - the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums.

> the haters are a vocal minority that only exists on forums.

You seem to have lost the total picture - some sort of tunnel vision due to focusing on the "forums".

Firefox had a gigantic market share but lost it. Let's assume that the market share dropped from 80% to 3%. So 77% percentage points lost!

So from original market share of 80%:

1) 77% users simply quit. They didnt bother to come to "the forums" to complain. They didnt like the product, so they simply stopped using it. They voted with their legs and wallets.

Then there are still 3% of users that remain with firefox (of the original 80%). Those can be probably divided into few subgroups:

2) Those who dislike the direction where firefox is going - and objectively, arent they right? Product lost lots of market share (you call them "haters")

3) Those who still use the product for many reasons

4) Those who will use the product even if it is subpart and completely worse the competition. Like those sports fans that support a team even if the team is very bad. This vocal minority of zealots will defend their favorite product at all costs. Even if firefox pissed on their faces, they would come to "the forums" and write that rain is great...

Are you part of group of 3 or 4?

It's not exactly dinner table conversation, and average internet-users probably wouldn't care much about the implications of such a company and situations, sure. The misgivings aren't justified among many who are aware of the details? Shouldn't non-profits deserve some scrutiny when they're seemingly being mishandled?

It's rare enough to warrant a discussion in passing wherever I notice it. Usually people use it because they don't want google monopoly and I have not seen anyone have the kind of burning passion for looking into pockets of women CEO's as in the comments here. I disagree with a lot of the decisions she made, but looking at suggestions for improving ff marketshare in this thread I am happy that she was at the helm and not random hn'ers.

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