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Toyota reliability is unmatched, but their design and interior tech certainly leaves something to be desired. I wish they would take a more modern approach like how Hyundai has with the 2024 Santa Fe that looks like a Ranger Rover with the latest design like a BMW but at a more affordable price point. While also reliable, the idea of a Toyota but with the new design of say the Santa Fe would seem to be the perfect mix. But perhaps part of the reason Toyota is so reliable is because they put such a relative little focus on design/tech enhancements? Love that Santa Fe is Hybrid in US, but also surprised the new model doesn't offer a plugin hybrid (in US) this year which would think would be quite popular. But perhaps they want to wait to 2025 incase any major issues in the new 2024 model before expanding the lineup.

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Part of why I purchased a Toyota Tacoma last year was b/c the tech isn't the "latest and greatest" on the market. I can expect this vehicle to drive for 500k miles (more realistically, 10 years at 250k miles before I'm ready for a change, we'll see) and I can expect for the tech to last just as long. I have zero faith that a tesla's tech will hold up for 10 years, or have any resale value in 10 years. I also feel confident I can fix most of the issues that will occur with this vehicle. Sure, it's still a modern car and fixing anything will require a few hours of removing other parts to get to the broken bit - but that's still easier to fix than something going bad on some of these super tech'ed up vehicles.

I can’t stand the look of a single BMW nor the other SUV you mentioned. To each their own, and toyota styling does have fans. (Wish the Lexus front end was more aerodynamic though)

> I can’t stand the look of a single BMW

Same. Recent BMWs look increasingly garish. Why would you make the "grill" ("nostrils" some call them on BMWs) bigger on EVs? And then when you get close to them you see there is actually no opening there - they're like fake shutters on a house.

I think this might fit your needs: https://www.nyetoyota.com/the-2024-toyota-land-cruiser-hybri...

> Toyota reliability is unmatched, but their design and interior tech certainly leaves something to be desired. . . . But perhaps part of the reason Toyota is so reliable is because they put such a relative little focus on design/tech enhancements?

Yes, maybe the two are related in some unseen way. Like, for all its power, the eye of Sauron at the top of the corp tower can't focus on all things equally.

I semi-anticipated a hybrid to be the worst of both worlds, but after 13 + 6 years that hasn't proven the case for my Prii.

Toyota reliability is unmatched, but their design and interior tech certainly leaves something to be desired.

Our household used to exclusively drive private party used Corollas. We've switched to Teslas. If your time is valuable and you factor time and money together, the savings on hassles is already worth it in spades.

I don't get it. If your time is money (and your money is money) why would you switch from Corollas to Teslas? Corollas have a reputation for reliability.

No oil changes. No smog inspection. No visits to the filling station. No timing belt. No transmission fluid. Also, Corolla tire pressure gauges seem to be designed to break after several years, and are seemingly designed to be too expensive to repair. (Pretty much take this as a given for many years of Corollas.) I don't see that as being a problem on the Teslas.

There's just far less to go wrong on an EV. Corollas have a reputation for reliability? The Teslas following the S/X super luxury models, the 3 and the Y, look to beat them at this game.

More objective looks at reliability put Teslas as a class very far down in any ordered ranking. Not as bad as Jeeps or Chevys, but below Ford, Dodge, and Lincoln.

What's interesting is the despite this Teslas often rank near the top for owner satisfaction.

I can believe that both are true.

More objective looks at reliability put Teslas as a class very far down in any ordered ranking.

[Citation Needed]

There's a long history of such rankings being gamed by the auto industry. If you follow Tesla closely, it's quite obvious that so many of the rankings are simply designed to exclude or disadvantage them.

What's interesting is the despite this Teslas often rank near the top for owner satisfaction.

I can believe that both are true.

In automotive history, when there's disruption and car adoption shifts so massively, has it ever turned out that large numbers of people were deluded? Has it ever turned out that large numbers of people saw real value where complacent incumbents dropped the ball? (Example: Japanese imports disrupting the US market.)

That answer to both is yes. However, the 2nd has been more often the case. Also, the instances of the 1st simply don't last multiple years.

So if you consider automotive history, it's far more likely that loyal Tesla owners are onto something, and you simply want them to be deluded.

> and you simply want them to be deluded

I'm pretty sure that's not what I said.

Sorry if I mistook your intent. However:

More objective looks at reliability put Teslas as a class very far down in any ordered ranking.

Really, you should look more closely at automotive industry rankings. This is basically fodder for the legacy media, which has deservedly lost a lot of credibility. For that matter, take a close look at media covering these things. So many of these things are gamed. Also look up what Peter Thiel says about incumbency, ossification, and lack of true innovation in today's industry. It's not that the emperor has no clothes, but things a lot skimpier than they're supposed to be.

I broadly agree with you on your points, and as a Tesla shareholder with a slightly embarrassing amount of money tied up in them, I have nothing but self-interested desire for them to do well.

What seems to happen often with owners of the vehicles is that they are so enamored with many of the benefits of them, that they overlook some issues -- sometimes to the point where they don't or won't acknowledge them. And use this very biased point of view to extend their positive feelings and anecdotes towards the entire brand.

I also personally believe that things that were issues with traditional ICE cars simply aren't the same kind of problem with electrics, or of the same magnitude. So even similar sounding problems are more a matter of degree than equavalency. In addition, there are benefits to electrics that have no real equivalency with ICE cars.

What I do know is that if you do even the most cursory research on the overall large-scale and longterm reliability of the vehicles...which because Tesla isn't forthcoming with their data has to be accumulated voluntarily by survey...the cars don't do well.

However, it's really not that important to most owners as the vehicles as again, the benefits simply overwhelm all of that. Things that would be unacceptable to an owner of a Toyota really does just get a free pass with a Tesla.

Things that would be unacceptable to an owner of a Toyota really does just get a free pass with a Tesla.

Perhaps my experience is atypical, but I had way more issues (not just hassles) with my last Toyota Corolla.

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