Hacker News Reader

Comment by MostlyStable | Hacker News Reader

I'm curious where the equilibrium is. There is some portion of people who will not torrent no matter what. Either because of lack of ability or moral views, or some other reason.

There is a second set of the population that will never pay for media, or at least not more than very trivial amounts. Either because of lack of ability to pay, not thinking it's worth it, or not believing there is anything wrong with piracy.

Then the is the third group that will happily pay for content when it is reasonably priced and, perhaps most importantly, easy and convenient. If it's too expensive or too difficult/annoying, they will pirate.

The size of this third group dictates where the equilibrium is. If it's very small, then media will always converge in the cable style maximum extraction. But if that second group is large, then the cable model might lose more money than it gains by pushing consumers towards piracy.

View on HN

You're missing a 4th group: people who would enjoy watching content X, but simply won't bother if it's too annoying. The alternative isn't piracy, it's just doing something else with your time. There's not that many shows or movies that I care enough about to keep one subscription open for it. I had an HBO subscription for Game of Thrones, but I also enjoyed Succession, Last Week Tonight, and some other random stuff. After Game of Thrones shit the bed, I canceled HBO and simply don't watch those other shows. I never finished Succession; I'd like to one day, but it's not worth either the subscription or pirating.

This just shows that the availability of piracy is NOT the problem. It shouldn't matter to HBO whether I've pirated it or not: I could be a paying customer if their prices matched their catalog's value, but it doesn't, so they get nothing, piracy or no.

The 4th group is important because they didn’t compete well throughout most of Cable’s tenure. Now, YouTube, TikTok, etc eat away at people’s video diet. Video games are now fully mainstream too. Normal social media (Twitter, Reddit, Meta) take even more.

I’m in group 4. I’ll pay for streaming services to avoid ads, but never linear TV. TV is largely superior content - it’s professionally made and generally high quality. But if I get sick of jumping through hoops, I have plenty of other things to do.

I support your move, it's better than piracy.

The problem with piracy is if you become a fan of a series and gossip with your friends about it, now you're marketing that company's crappy service. It's a weird way to go about things.

It's weird because TV is also culture. Game of Thrones isn't just some random piece of personal, single-player entertainment: it was, and is, an important cultural phenomenon for at least half of the planet.

That's what makes the dynamics so weird: it's not just, or even primarily, about your personal entertainment - there are social aspects involved, from wanting to belong with your peer group (e.g. talk about latest GoT episode with your cow-orkers at the water cooler), to all kinds of rituals (e.g. watching romantic comedies with a date/spouse).

Same applies to books and musics, to a lesser degree to magazines/news media. For some reason, it mostly doesn't apply to videogames; I used to think it was because they're a new thing, but these days, I think it's rather because the experience is much more individualized and requires much more effort (and time), making it a poor social object.

> Same applies to books and musics, to a lesser degree to magazines/news media. For some reason, it mostly doesn't apply to videogames

It absolutely does, but apparently not for your peer group.

I do observe it applying to video games in many circles. This is more true for social (cooperative or competitive) games and in game-adjacent social contexts like Twitch streaming, but it's also applicable to recognizing references and plot beats from widely-known classics or having similar experiences over particular moments or levels, even in single-player. Pokémon, Final Fantasy, Minecraft…

Game of Thrones was a massive outlier in its cultural impact, especially for a TV show. Many games have as much or more cultural impact than many TV shows or movies, probably more on average - even than major shows. And among children, it's almost entirely the opposite.

> It's weird because TV is also culture. Game of Thrones isn't just some random piece of personal, single-player entertainment: it was, and is, an important cultural phenomenon for at least half of the planet. > > That's what makes the dynamics so weird: it's not just, or even primarily, about your personal entertainment - there are social aspects involved, from wanting to belong with your peer group (e.g. talk about latest GoT episode with your cow-orkers at the water cooler)

OTOH if you don't have that in common with other people, you just talk about other things. It is the same thing with soccer for example which is the #1 subject around coffee machines for men (and now increasingly women).

> OTOH if you don't have that in common with other people, you just talk about other things.

What, you mean like babies and mortgages and bills and restaurants and health problems and gossip? I mean I can enjoy talking about those as well to an extent, but at times I like to change it up a bit.

For a lot of people I know, that's all I really have in common with them, besides geek shit. There was like a solid 45 minutes of me sitting quietly at a New Year's Eve party recently, because everyone else started going into all the Marvel and Star Wars TV shows they watched, of which I've mostly skipped (except Loki and a couple seasons of Mandalorian).

For the people who don't even have interests in geek shit, it seems like they're often very limited to the other topics above (or the other topics plus sports if they're into those). At least the people I've encountered.

It's not like I don't have other interests. I have a lot of creative interests, like making games, and writing, and (very amateur) photography, and music. But a lot of adults don't bother with that stuff (or don't bother anymore, at least), and mostly just consume the creative output of others.

Yes. However, attention is finite, the intersection of topics any one in the group is willing to talk about is narrow, and my point is that TV shows occupy significant fraction of it - that's why they have this weird dynamic where seemingly extraneous entertainment product is treated by many as basic human right. Because in some sense, it is: it's a big component of the shared experience, which itself is the glue that holds society together.

games are culture—shared, social culture—you just need better friends and coworkers.

You're not marketing the company service if you explicitly say that you pirated X, and offer help to anyone who would like to do the same.

I started using pirated copies of some music software I actually paid for and own, because it became too problematic and inconvenient. Why do I need a kernel extension for this crap? Fuck iLok sincerely.

Next step is not paying for anything altogether. A middle finger is the only thing those kinds of companies are getting from me in the future, and honestly I'd rather see their demise.

If streaming ever becomes like this, I'm also going back to piracy.

I think a lot of that will be answered with even more aggressive lockouts, DRM and "protections". Platform like Apple's iOS really play into this because they're designed to not allow users to bypass the money extraction and vote with their wallets.

Group three depends on means, motive, and opportunity.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com