I believe once we go fully cashless, we'll regret it and wish we could go back.
I can barely enjoy a full day without being required to bring my phone / debit card with me because the register does not accept cash.
I can barely enjoy a full day without being required to bring my phone / debit card with me because the register does not accept cash.
Get Alipay. Link your credit card. Put in a pin, but no not that pin because it has two consecutive numbers. Pick a different pin. Forget it by the time you need to pay and reset your pin. Go to the grocery store and have to download a new app to pay, they can’t take Alipay even though it’s the same parent company. Oh the machine didn’t work, so pull your phone out again to scan. And the endless additional services you need to sign up for to avoid price discrimination upwards of 200%.
It’s a nightmare. Japan has it right, keeping with a cash based society.
Same for convenience
What liberty? The ability to make transactions without a centralized and/or permissioned finance system
But how do you get a regular re-supply of your cash to pay the places that take cash?
For me, I would have to make a regular trips to the bank ATM machine to withdraw cash. That type of errand is inconvenient which is why I haven't done that in 15 years. It's been so long that I don't even know what my secret PIN code is to withdraw cash. I pay for everything by credit-card.
I can see where bringing a debit card can be inconvenient but the alternative of ATM withdrawals is inconvenient too (and also vulnerable to physical loss/theft).
I mean, sorry for the sass, but when did it become acceptable to base an argument on slight inconveniences? Being alive is slightly inconvenient most of the time.
It's not about avoiding any and all inconveniences.
My comment was based on gp's framing of the situation as "being required to do <X>". He wrote that a cashless businesses was not ideal because it means "being required to bring my phone / debit card with me".
Ok, I can accept that inconvenience exists but then the alternative to "hassle of debit card" is just substituted with "hassle of being required to regularly re-supply the inventory of cash on hand".
Substituting <X> with "debit card cashless" with "visit ATMs and carry wad of cash" didn't seem like a slam dunk tradeoff. Another issue I remember with cash is getting a stack of $20 bills from the ATM and then trying to spend it but the business' cash drawer doesn't have the appropriate inventory of small denomination bills to give back the correct change. (Even if the ATM can also spit out smaller $10s or $5s, they can often run out which then leaves only the larger $20 bills left for dispensing.) The credit-card transactions eliminate that issue because you just pay the exact amount.
Sure, if transactions privacy is the #1 concern, then one will happily withdraw cash and deal with its inconveniences. But privacy wasn't in the gp's comment so I just interpreted it at face value.
I withdraw a sum of cash at the beginning of each month at the bank.
I carry maybe ~150 euros whenever I’m out doing stuff.
What’s interesting is I spend less this way - and preserve my privacy.
Buy somewhere else (if humanly possible), and tell this to the vendor who doesn't want to accept cash.
While it's not clear that these behaviours are legal, it does not appear that there is any enforcement.
I'm not aware of a law that requires them to clearly sign post which payment methods they accept. I think there are various laws in other places in Europe though. I'm definitely all for that
They're taking on the risk of spoilage by not putting in any effort to make you aware before ordering - and hoping you'll just pay by card due to the sunk time cost. Shady but not illegal AFAIK.
[0] https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/what-are-the-rules-on-p...
You don't need it all the time, just for emergencies.
I do this especially when it’s dark outside and I have to go out to shop, this way, I don’t lose anything significant if I get robbed.
Another good reason is that some shops have to pay a fee for being able to accept digital transactions, for some shops, the fee is quite a lot. So paying with cash is preferred and helps them a bit.
Lastly, while it sounds shady, being able to pay in cash keeps me from being traced by the government. I don’t really have anything to hide but having the option to be anonymous If I want feels good.
If I have to buy larger amount of groceries, then I wait until daylight. No way I’m carrying more money when it’s dark outside.
Now I am against a cashless society for other reasons, mainly ideological, but claiming it's less convenient feels odd.
I can’t count how many times I’ve heard elderly people complain about vendors not accepting cash anymore.
(Not actually true since basically everyone accepts card in the UK, but it illustrates that your point makes no sense.)
So you tried to prove me wrong by giving a made up example?
1. You argue cashless is annoying because you have to remember your card/phone in addition to cash.
2. I countered that you could equally say that cash is bad because I have to remember cash in addition to my card/phone. Which makes them at worst equal. You just have to remember whichever one is accepted.
3. Except - as I stated and you highlighted - that is not really the case. Almost everywhere accepts card - more than accept cash, so not only is cashless equal to cash, it is better.
(From a "having to remember things" point of view anyway.)
I'll clear it up, cashless is annoying because instead of being able to walk outside with a couple of bills, I have to bring my whole phone or wallet with me because some vendors just don't accept cash. Sometimes I even prefer paying with cash because it helps the vendor avoid the fees they have to pay for each digital transaction.
It's got nothing to do with remembering.
That still doesn't make any sense. Firstly, 99% of people carry their phone with them pretty much everywhere so you're already a special snowflake.
Secondly, instead of "a couple of bills" you have to carry... a single card. Wow. So much hassle.
> Sometimes I even prefer paying with cash because it helps the vendor avoid the fees they have to pay for each digital transaction.
Yeah I have more sympathy with this but my feeling is vendors prefer cashless even with the fees - at least debit card fees (~0.5%), maybe not credit card fees - because cash isn't free. You have to spend time taking it to the bank, dealing with employee theft, etc. etc.
I feel like CBDCs could really help here.
In case I’d get robbed, I would only loose a couple of bucks vs losing my debit card (which does not require PIN until a limit). I live in a bas neighborhood, so walking outside when it’s dark side is not fun. So having no valuables on me feels good.
> Yeah I have more sympathy with this but my feeling is vendors prefer cashless even with the fees - at least debit card fees (~0.5%), maybe not credit card fees - because cash isn't free.
I have the totally opposite experience, most small shop owners I’ve spoken to have often asked me if I had cash instead of card, some would even give better deals and include free fries If I had cash in me, it’s on that level and one if the reasons why I often prefer cash now. I actually had a discussion regarding this with my local barbershop and he told me how much he hates people who pay with cars because of those fees he has to pay.
I had no idea about CBDC, had to look it up. It’s an interesting concept.
Depending on the time of the day and location I just ran errands with only the smallest amount of cash needed and an old phone. And sometimes I kept an emergency $1 bill to pay the bus in my socks . If I was robbed, the most they could get from me was the small cash I had on hand.
As money became electronic, organized crime changed tactics, and instead of only taking money from victims, they'd take the victims to ATMs to withdraw all their funds. Banks then reacted by limiting withdrawals at about $300 in ATMs depending on the risk of the area.
The major stores would be a problem, but on an individual basis I would bet many people would switch to silver or gold if cash were truly eliminated.