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Comment by Rudism | Hacker News Reader

I believe this is similar reasoning to why a lot of states have made red light cameras and speed cameras illegal. The owner of the car is not necessarily the person who was driving at the time, and it was the driver (not the car) who broke the law.

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Here in New Jersey, they've arrived at a compromise. The person in whose name the car is registered is responsible for the fine. But it's only a fine, with no points on your record.

I believe that's the case in Maryland, and was under the impression that's how most of these things work. I guess they figure since the only punishment is monetary, if you weren't actually the driver you can figure out pretty easily who was (usually your son/daughter/spouse) so you can get paid back (or ground them, etc).

Every time I hear a story about this, I am reminded of one of my favorite things ever concerning German traffic cops and speed cameras:

http://boingboing.net/2008/10/27/german-traffic-cops.html

In Australia (well, the state of Queensland where I am at least) I'm pretty sure you can sign a statutory declaration to say that it was somebody else driving (I think you probably have to say who it is and they cop the fine and the points, unless the car was reported stolen).

Photos of speed cameras often have the drivers faces visible, unless covered up - at least here in Norway. So yeah, the license plate doesn't identify a person, but at least it makes finding the right person easier if there's a dispute.

In the UK if you get caught speeding/running a red light by a camera, the ticket gets sent to the registered owner of the car.

You can either take the ticket, or tell them who was driving. You cannot say 'it wasn't me, but I won't tell you who it was'.

It is also a serious criminal offence to take speeding points on someone else's behalf (as it was suggested that government minister Chris Huhne asked his wife to)

What if you don't know who drove it? (you might have borrowed it to a few friends but don't know who drove it when)

In Sweden a clear photo of the driver is required for anyone to be fined.

> What if you don't know who drove it? (you might have borrowed it to a few friends but don't know who drove it when)

As someone else touched on: in most states of Australia, the owner of the vehicle (as per the registration) is responsible. If you "don't know" who was driving your car it doesn't matter-you are responsible for the vehicle unless you have reported it stolen. Which I think is fair: if you're going to lend your car out, make sure you trust the person driving it.

I feel that nailing the owner is completely unnecessary. The owner might be responsible for the vehicle but the driver is responsible for how it is driven. Parking tickets is a reasonable exception since it's hard to prove who drove it last. For your own sake you should always trust anyone you are lending your vehicle to but you shouldn't have to care for any legal implications that might result in (other than parking tickets).

In Egypt three speeding tickets means jail time (if I remember correctly), only not for the driver but for the owner. IMO that's just sick.

At that point isn't it more of a concern that the supposed completely random person driving your car isn't insured? Personal responsibility rules kick in before then.

I wouldn't call a group of friends a random person...

Sure, I could ask who was driving but I wouldn't know if they for some reason were lying.

And wait, what? Why should the owner care if the driver is insured? The vehicle is insured by the owner, as required by the law.

Who said anything about not checking insurance? I can loan a car out to two or more trusted, verified friends in the same month and then be unable to specify who had it at a specific hour.

They even send you a copy of the photo with the fine notice. It's pretty funny.

In Germany they have to get a picture of the driver and the license plate. There was a famous case where a UK driver was speeding and putting a dummy in the passenger seat [1]. He couldn't be ticketed for speeding because a dummy appeared to be driving his car.

[1] Germany has Napoleon compliant highways while the UK was much more interested in resisting anything from Napoleon.

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