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Actually one thing I really love about OS X is the placement of the command key. Keyboard shortcuts like Command+Q and Command+W are much more convenient then something like Alt+f4. Keyboard shortcuts in general in OS X have been a one of the great advantages in my experience. I also switched from Linux to mac about 4 or 5 years ago. At first it seemed very awkward. I think any change like that would be, but I was instantly appreciative of how seamless the system worked overall, and how much less I had to mess with it to get it to work right (Like I said, this was a few years ago). It's not perfect, though. I would suggest that anyone who is interested in making a jump to a new OS to try and get their hands on it before buying and see what they think.

I was going to go into a rant here, but I don't feed trolls anymore, I'm too old for this shit.

1. Map control to caps lock, like you should be doing on any keyboard you have.

2. Use the 'enter' or 'return' key to make paragraphs.

3. Use your left thumb for the command key.

4. Stop pretending that this is an Ubuntu box. It's a mac, treat it like one & give the mac versions of software a look first, before running back into RMS's hands. That's the rational thing to do on any platform.

5. You'll notice you'll be paying for software. You'll also notice that you're a crap-ton more productive.

6. Apple doesn't sell low-end hardware, get over it. Then again, hackers usually need more machine than the low-end crap.

"Then again, hackers usually need more machine than the low-end crap."

Microsoft did that. Look how well their OS runs on low-end hardware.

I don't do client side programming anymore and I am _very_ happy with my Atom-based netbook for work. When I get home, I just hook it up to a giant monitor and happy I go.

And, BTW, Zope and Django run acceptably on it, so, I won't be seen migrating to a backbreaker notebook anytime soon.

I find OSX somewhat uncomfortable to use for me (a lot less than Windows - boy, why do people subject themselves to that?) mostly because it's Unix to a point and something completely alien beyond that. The problem for developers is the Unix half is very traditional 80's Unix and things have evolved a lot since that was cutting edge. I like my package manager to help me reassemble my box the way I want it to be and do so in servers in a repeatable way.

If your hacking is only around programming and reading Office documents and you don't touch system configuration at all, the Mac can be for you. If not, I would consider a vanilla PC with Linux as the superior choice.

> You'll also notice that you're a crap-ton more productive.

It's not a given that using a Mac will make you more productive.

well i wasn't trolling, just an honest opinion 1. never heard of this before. 2. sorry 3. never heard of this, i was using my pinky or ring finger to try to hit it. 4. a comparison is comparing one os to another and the software available. I said, I pay for software and so i do use mac versions first. But for the most part i use mac ports, or command line clients. A mac is unix hacker man. 5. paying for software != more productive.. for a hacker you should know this. 6. hardware is commodity. so its a comparison on os, and available software. realistically i can run linux on high end machine as well for cheaper price.

So anybody who doesn't like Macs is a troll?

it sounds like you're trying to use your pinky to hit the command key. it's a lot more comfortable if you use your thumb to hit the command key.

it's a lot more natural to hit the command key for me, since i only have to curl my thumb in a little bit to hit the command key, whereas i can't reach the control key with my pinky unless I shift my hand.

From what I found out in this typing course I took if you're pressing Ctrl + C you're meant to use the pinky on your RIGHT hand and hit C with the LEFT (middle finger).

The same applies to Q, E, W, and all other keys on the right side of the board. Switch it the other way around (pinky on the left Ctrl) if you're hitting P, O, K or any other keys on the right side.

That's the "proper" way of typing, but it's not always easy to remember, especially when you're holding the mouse on the other hand and copy/pasting on the fly.

Also, I'm not sure how this properly translates on a mac (i have a mac at home but i'm on my work PC right now ...)

It also doesn't work as well if one of your hands is on the mouse (as is common for many graphics editors).

I force myself to use the fisher price os they call osx

The thing about OSX is that it may look simple, but when you tell it to do something, it does it. I've lost count of the time I've left my Windows PC to do some long running task only to come back and find it's actually done nothing, it's waiting for me to confirm that I'm really, really sure. Or it's simply ignored me or failed silently. That is worth paying the "apple tax" for. It's paid me back many times over.

You can buy alternative keyboards, you know...

I will definitely continue using my Microsoft Ergo keyboard -- the Apple keyboard is definitely not as comfortable for me. Interesting point about the Crtl key vs command key positioning. I agree that the control key is positioned better for editing. I just noticed this thread in Apple support (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8238419) about modifying the control key to simulate the command key. Not sure if this would impact anything else.

yeah its amazing that apple touts themselves as pro-user but their external keyboards are without a doubt the most craptastic worthless keyboards on the market. they look cool but are utterly useless for prolonged use

and yes apple takes your freedom and will slowly turn you into an idiot. we're software developers damnit, we're supposed to be interested in how the computer works under the hood, not looking to put a gramma-friendly interface on everything. i don't understand developers who look for "just works" at the expense of "show me the code"

I don't like macs because they are gramma-friendly, I like them because I can run a real bash rather than cygwin. You want to know how a computer works under the hood, you should prefer OS X to windows.

It's rather unfortunate that you need to pay for Mac hardware just to run bash, don't you think?

In my case my employer pays for it ;-) Otherwise I'd be running Ubuntu!

You want to know how a computer works under the hood, you should prefer OS X

no, i should prefer linux or freebsd, which i do, ON (SANITIZED AND LIBERATED) APPLE HARDWARE.

Hey, you are quoting just part of my sentence! I said prefer OS X to Windows. I agree with you.

not every developer wants to develop on their os. rather, I would like computer that "just works" so that I can do my development work.

yes it's cool to be interested in what's under the hood, but once you've tried to get your wireless working for hours on numerous occasions, you start to appreciate when things just work. i got sick of wasting my time.

not every developer wants to develop on their os

uh....okay-doke

I think what they meant was, "Not everybody wants to develop things for only their current OS".

A good deal of OS X is open source, but that's beside the point. I don't really care that XNU, etc, are open source, because I don't want to develop an OS -- I want to develop for that OS. If you're so bothered about everything being open, then I suppose you are using OpenBSD, not Linux or anything else, because it doesn't contain binary blobs? Seriously, I don't understand why you're so bothered about things being open that you'd never change anyway.

On the other hand, Cocoa is a better API than anything available for Linux or Windows, and that does matter to me. So do the consistent and logical keyboard shortcuts across all apps, the high level of UI design absent on almost every other OS, how all my hardware just works without having to edit configuration files, and loads of other detail that Apple pays attention to. There's a lot more to good design than being grandma-friendly, and not many people except Apple get it right.

I'm bothered about things being open because I prefer the idea of a future where improvements can be built upon all previous knowledge, rather than a future where everybody has to start from scratch implementing their own basic proprietary versions of everything.

I prefer the idea of a future where improvements can be built upon all previous knowledge

pretty much nailed it on the head there. A lot of developers really miss the point while getting sucked into these flamewars..

almost as annoying as the vim vs emacs bickering.

If you truly believe you should have to look at the code and that things shouldn't "just work", then you must not know about modularization and encapsulation. If I have to know about how the C linker works in order to install a program, then the OS I'm using is a terribly leaky abstraction with a poorly designed user interface/API.

I want my basic tools to just work so that I can concentrate on developing my own programs and tools.

modu-whaaa? encapsu...lishion???? wow you must be one of them professor types!

Any mention of Apple sure gets your dander up, doesn't it?

yes, i get particularly pissed by so-called counter-culture hipsters pissing all over the unwashed masses yet slavishly dedicated to the hypocrisy of crass consumerism when they think its "cool". the appletards go miles beyond any shopping-zombie i can think of in their pursuit of buying shit. and yes, it is shit. its stunning that there are morons buying the new macbooks for $2k!!!...i mean, you have to be braindead.

but the icing on the cake was when i bought the 3rd gen ipod nano. previous ipods were recognized by linux and various tools. but oh no, steve had to encrypt the firmware, thus pointlessly complicating what should be a trivial task - mounting a usb device. WHY???? what do you FUCKING CARE steve that i am trying to plug this into a linux box??? is it a problem that i don't buy into your end-end slavery? i replaced it with a cowon...at least they aren't going out of their way to fuck over users who don't goose-step a certain way

You can get the kernel source and much more here: http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html

> its stunning that there are morons buying the new macbooks for $2k!!!...i mean, you have to be braindead.

Do you have a car? By your logic - if you drive anything above a Geo Metro you must be braindead. If you don't, do you pay for the bus? You could walk - you must be braindead. Do everything yourself, pay for nothing! Don't put money into making yourself happy with the things you use most of your waking life! What a weakling!

You seem pretty upset about this stuff. I think you're over generalizing about Apple users. Everybody buys things for different reasons.

i also vent on the other hypocrites who piss on people for buying bottled water yet are sure to lease a new mercedes every nine months

The latest flat aluminum Apple external keyboards are the best I've ever used, and I've been a keyboard snob for decades.

I can't stand them myself. But other people I work with use them more regularly than me and seem to love them.

No proof of anything, but possibly more useful data.

+1 I LOVE this keyboard- only wish the wireless one had a numeric keypad also

ask anyone occupational therapist if the apple keyboard is recommended over, say, the kinesis advantage pro. if you aren't using a kinesis or one of its real competitors right now, you are not a "keyboard snob"

the apple keyboard:

- has no discernable key travel

- is not split and contoured

- is too small

its probably the biggest ergonomic nightmare out there. fortunately few people actually use them after buying the computer

But if I can fly on this keyboard (and the ones like it such as the MacBook Air) with no problems for years, why should I worry about the "ergonomic" keyboards?