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Comment by ksec | Hacker News Reader

For those who are not aware, and I think it is important to Note, Canon is not a new entry to the industry. They were actually competing with ASML before they gave up in the early 10s.

They are aiming at 5nm in 2025 and extend it to 2nm in 2027+. I guess in real world terms you can add at least 1 year to it even in the most optimistic scenario.

I dont expect many logic chips will be using it, given the sunk cost involves in all the new and older design with current tools and manufacturing. But if it works it would be very exciting for DRAM and NAND.

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Most SOCs are trimmed for cost, which means cheap manufacturing. Especially the system on a chip design for single board computers.

Even RPI5s with the Broadcom BCM2712 which is super high volume is 16nm. If they manage to get 5nm in 2026 at low cost than that's the path to take the SOC crown.

This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

>This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

A little more power (different form factor...) but don't miss Milk-V Oasis.

That's due this summer, $120, mini-itx and should be massively faster than RPi5.

I can't wait to get my hands on one of those.

Energy efficiency, high performance, low cost per IC: pick 2.

Up until a process generation or three ago, costs were declining as efficiency and performance increased!

When I compare my phone with a PDP11 it seems obvious that I can pick all three and then some

You are comparing time series data when the statement was obviously meant about cross sectional data.

High absolute performance (Xeon / Epyc scale), maybe.

High performance per watt, why not all three? Smaller transistors take less power to switch, so they likely can be run at a higher frequency without thermal issues. (Of course, a lot of other design considerations apply.)

Canon "exited" the race earlier than that. Canon makes KrF scanners, but chose not to pursue ArF scanners. Nikon and ASML did pursue ArF (which were introduced late 90s/early 2000s), later Nikon chose to not pursue EUV scanners, leaving only ASML in that market.

Oh and just to clarify, by "Nikon chose to not pursue EUV" I of course mean "the US made sure the japs can't access the relevant technology because they were market leaders at the time".

Do you have in references for the US involvement in Nikon's decision to drop EUV?

https://brie.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/wp118.pdf

> But if it works it would be very exciting for DRAM and NAND.

Japan back in control of DRAM, nature is healing

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