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Comment by dheera | Hacker News Reader

I love my FW13 too. I just wish it had more options for components. I can of course pick my own SSD and RAM configuration but that's true of every Lenovo laptop.

I wish I could get a 4K screen, an eInk screen, a touchscreen, a Dvorak keyboard, a OLED keyboard, an IMU/GPS/barometer expansion module, a pico projector expansion module, a software-defined-radio expansion module, a larger aperture webcam module, an IR webcam module, a depth camera webcam module, an Arduino expansion module, an IR emitter expansion module that controls TVs, etc etc etc.

But nobody seems interested in making this stuff. I guess the community that uses Framework laptops isn't really capable of that level of hardware engineering (me included) and the companies in China doing hardware haven't caught onto making stuff for Framework.

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We've seen Microcontroller, SDR, and IR Expansion Cards from the community! We'd definitely love to see some of the even more complex ones though, and expect that as the community continues to mature and grow, some will make it through: https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85

Yes, I've seen those though unfortunately I'm not a hardware engineer and would have a hard time reproducing them. Even if I could figure out how to get a PCB made from a KiCAD file I wouldn't be able to do the surface-mount soldering without botching everything.

I'd love to be able to just pay for them and buy them and then get rolling with software :)

I just got my AMD Framework 13, which I'm mostly happy with, but I'm in the same boat. It's great that's it's possible to attach these devices to the laptop, but the true nature of this seems to be that you have to make these things because there isn't a real market for them beyond what Framework is selling.

I did come up with something I would want enough that I'm willing to try to make it though. Taking inspiration from some other modules like it, I'm currently looking into adding this microcontroller with a transparent case:

https://github.com/01Space/ESP32-C3FH4-RGB

If I'm happy with it, I was going to try to have it show battery status like some other laptops have. This might be possible by wiring up another microcontroller to the SMBus on the battery. I'm still researching that part though.

> Even if I could figure out how to get a PCB made from a KiCAD file I wouldn't be able to do the surface-mount soldering without botching everything.

For what it's worth, some places like JLCPCB can source and solder SMT components to your designed boards as long as you pick from their available parts library.

Thanks! I'll take a look into this. I always thought PCBs required minimum order quantities in the tens to get assembled (mostly because I had a startup before in which we had an EE that took care of this)

> I wish I could get a 4K screen, an eInk screen, a touchscreen, a Dvorak keyboard, a OLED keyboard, an IMU/GPS/barometer expansion module, a pico projector expansion module, a software-defined-radio expansion module, a larger aperture webcam module, an IR webcam module, a depth camera webcam module, an Arduino expansion module, an IR emitter expansion module that controls TVs, etc etc etc.

> But nobody seems interested in making this stuff. I guess the community that uses Framework laptops isn't really capable of that level of hardware engineering (me included) and the companies in China doing hardware haven't caught onto making stuff for Framework.

I relate to your sentiment of wanting tons of modules, but I'm going to disagree on the skills of the community.

For some of these options (4k/eink screens for eg), you need such a panel to be available (panelook to search -> aliexpress/ebay to buy). SDRs, IMUs & sensors could be doable relatively "easily" if they interface via USB/PCIE.

There are lots of hardware tinkerers in youtube, hackaday and of course even here on HN. I'm a mechanical engineer with some electrical/electronics knowledge, and I could likely make a half-decent module if I had the time/money/reason/ethusiasm for it. There's a guy who's turned an iPad screen into the FW13 display (on the framework community). There are probably dozens of people who may read this comment who are far more skilled than I am.

If you are very keen to do this yourself, you might want to start with learning 3d modelling and building up from that (from a mechanical side). 3d printing metals with something like SLS is commercially (relatively) easy and (imo) accessible compared to say 10-20 years back.

> you need such a panel to be available

Aren't they available? Just take apart a used MacBook for a retina display, or take apart a Boox 13.3" tablet for the eInk display.

Or just buy this https://www.waveshare.com/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm

But good luck reverse engineering it. I wouldn't know where to start.

> Aren't they available? Just take apart a used MacBook for a retina display, or take apart a Boox 13.3" tablet for the eInk display.

Yeah for sure, what I meant is that DIYing a fully custom screen with a custom resolution etc isn't very easy :)

If you're buying a panel or scavenging an existing panel it's much "easier". Of course that hasn't stopped youtubers from designing their own 7-segment LCD panels... (example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zoeeR3geTA or https://youtu.be/ZA5vlDdpbkw)

> I'm a mechanical engineer with some electrical/electronics knowledge, and I could likely make a half-decent module if I had the time/money/reason/ethusiasm for it.

I consider myself to be a decent software engineer. But I am inexperienced in the area of creating my own hardware. I guess a lot of things are just knowing how to stick together pre-made components like "panels, SDRs, IMUs & sensors"? But how important is it to know circuit design?

There are a lot of unknown unknowns. And it is not clear what a good learning path would be to get started with hardware hacking as a hobbyist.

> I consider myself to be a decent software engineer. But I am inexperienced in the area of creating my own hardware. I guess a lot of things are just knowing how to stick together pre-made components like "panels, SDRs, IMUs & sensors"? But how important is it to know circuit design?

For most of the sensors mentioned in the initial comment, I would assume there are already commercial USB/eDP/PCIE sensors/components, and at least for framework these connectors on the motherboard are clearly exposed. I'd imagine it's possible to have some RJ-xxx sensor needing a RJ-USB converter too, but with the sensor+converter I think it is as easy as "design a box, throw them in".

HOWEVER - ESD is something I've heard can be pretty nasty and show up where you least expect it to. Proper grounding design would help. Beyond that, I am not aware of any "major" issues (there's also general environmental/power noise but ground could help with some of those issues like the "wonky touchscreen when charging". Also stuff like debouncing and pullup/down resistors if using buttons).

My personal knowledge of circuit design isn't very good, I studied it till high school and had an intro to EE class in uni (which actually wasn't bad, learnt the basics of opamp circuits etc) but I don't remember much of those now.

> There are a lot of unknown unknowns. And it is not clear what a good learning path would be to get started with hardware hacking as a hobbyist.

I think if you want to get started, the most "comprehensive" way would be by looking at syllabus of undergraduate EE programs (or MechE for the physical side), and perhaps going through the relevant/interesting chapters.

However the "easiest" will be by just building basic circuits - using an arduino, or making a hand-wired mechanical keyboard. Googling issues like "arduino button changes on its own" will give results like https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/186/button-state... which talk about floating pins.

This is as much as I know on this topic (I have "tried learning more esp. in high speed designs but that's vast), if anyone else has helpful suggestions I'll be happy to learn :)

I get that. There's tons of amazing possibilities and it's fun to imagine them and to hope they come out. I'm going to try to make something with my kiddo for the FW, but of course the focus will be on bonding and helping my kiddo build skills, understanding, and connection. So we might not quite get to putting the e-ink reader on the backside of the lid.

>the companies in China doing hardware haven't caught onto making stuff for Framework.

Don't worry. They will catch on... making and copying not just components but the entire framework. It really depends on how popular it gets.

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