Between this and the horror stories coming out of the Midwest[1] it is not a good week for Tesla
1. https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-cha...
1. https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-cha...
Seems like all the horror stories about people being stranded in 20F with a dead car and no heating come from Tesla owners.
I'm happy nobody has died yet, but from what we saw it's just a matter of time before whole families are found dead
In some way, this is actually useful as people need to know the differences and possible new risks with an EV. On the other hand, it’s still biased.
But the particular cases where the car itself has broken down seem to be limited to Teslas.
Even in the heavily moderated Tesla Club Sweden forum people have started questioning the reliability of these cars in the winter.
That is indeed a story, and should caution those in certain environments not to buy that brand. It also shows a lack of testing, to sell cars into a market, where they won't work reliably for part of the year.
And a completely different tact, a car breaking down is expected. An entire production model being flawed, and defective, is not.
This is not even slightly biased.
My conservative friends in Scotland are all eager to share “horror stories” of Teslas in Chicago with me. When a Tesla has a problem it literally makes world news. That should tell you how often these things happen.
This seems like a bad faith comment when looked at in that context.
Here it is again:
* I live in Scotland * I am subject to Scottish weather * In my Scottish weather the car operates just fine * My conservative friends are sharing stories of a handful of issues people are having in another country as proof of… something. Not sure exactly what but some culture war thing they have been tricked into spreading by their influencers. * Tesla stories are therefore amplified. There were a bunch of ICE cars also having issues but you don’t hear about them.
Frankly, you're making a false equivalence here. You're conflating "teslas in perfect factory delivery order" not working at normal winter temps, with "a poorly maintained or defective ICE car" not working. It's not the same thing. At all.
I've driven all sorts of cars sold in North America, and -40C? Fine.
I've owned VWs, Toyotas, GMs, my neighbours have all manner of cars. No one has problems with -40C. No one.
ICE cars, in good working order are fine, and start and work reliability at -40C. Teslas, it would seem, do not.
That is not someone picking on EVs.
Really, EV tech is very new, compared to ICE.
They seem to be saying,
> ICE cars, in good working order are fine, and start and work reliability at -40C.
...and they're mostly correct.
In that sort of weather, you just use a bit higher concentration of antifreeze in your coolant mixture. Fuel will usually start freezing at a colder temperature as well.
Hope you enjoy doing your things!
p.s.) fun fact: one need not specify C or F or K when the value is -40 degrees :)
Given that I think if we had a -40 snap in Scotland a great many brand new in-spec ICE cars would fail to start.
Or is this all wrong and you can just turn the key on any old ICE and go? Genuine question since I don’t live in conditions like those.
And reading the Reddit thread here suggests that a great many EV owners are doing just fine in extreme temperatures: https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/comments/194yg8x/how_are_yo...
Maybe that’s not -40 and they’ll all fail then?
- They don't need "a whole host of ways to deal with it".
- They don't need "special fluids", just normal ones any other car needs, properly selected for the climate.
- They don't need block heaters
- They don't need systems to automatically start the car if it falls below -39 degrees.
Given that, I don't think if there was -40 degree weather, a great many brand-new in-spec ICE cars would fail to start. After all, some places reach that weather, and the cars don't.
Yes, you can turn the key and go, in -40 degree weather. You will be cold while the car heats up, but it will turn over, at least within 2 or 3 tries. The requirements are the ones you have for maintaining an ICE car in any weather: proper oil, proper coolant mixture, and proper battery maintenance. You can admittedly get away with failing at these, in less extreme climate. For example, in the south, it can be hot enough that you can use water, with no antifreeze at all, as coolant.
As for your reddit thread, I wouldn't trust it as an accurate measure of anything, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not interested in a contest between the two, so I'll remain on the topic of whether a properly-maintained ICE car would just work in -40 degree weather (it would).
Any way you try to walk it back is just that. I’m not missing the point, you’ve changed the point now that you’re being downvoted for this obviously false equivalency.
I don’t know why I’m being downvoted, maybe there are other people like you determined to interpret it the wrong way.
Just guessing, but could it just be that rapid EV growth resulted in a lot of relatively new EV drivers in Chicago? And some of these new drivers didn't know yet about battery behavior in the cold, and how to mitigate it with battery preconditioning?
On the other hand, the event in Chicago was clearly a freak event and in no way reflects the normal operation of Tesla charging infrastructure in cold weather (elsewhere in North America, where it was also very cold, the vast majority of Teslas were fine).
> The challenges Tesla owners are facing aren't specific to the carmaker.
One should wonder why the title (and story) is not about EVs generally?
I will offer a very cynical answer: NPR and The Guardian (which is misrepresenting the scope and cause - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39065628) have an axe to grind, but need to walk a fine line as to come across as being anti-EV.
Because you're taking it out of context? The story is about Tesla owners having issues getting their cars charged and long supercharger lines which both occurred. There were no reports of long-lines at CCS chargers that I heard of on any of the EV forums I participate in.
The "not specific to the carmaker" was in regard to Lithium batteries (generically) struggling in super-cold weather.
Furthermore, you completely disregard the fact there's an entire section about how other Tesla owners weren't having issues charging in the cold. Between the two I guess the question is do you have an axe to grind with NPR or are you just upset there's negative (deserved) press about Tesla supercharging struggling in sub-zero temps? Some of it is their fault, some of it is an education thing, but Tesla also does a pretty horrible job of educating owners on charging etiquette.
The story seems blown out of proportion. News outlets get to choose what they report on, which itself is part of sentiment making.
There are way more interesting and important issues to report on, and I wish that NPR, which is one of my main news sources, would do a better job.
So yes, as a customer of NPR I am voicing my dissatisfaction.
Not really? You had large numbers of people literally having to get their cars towed. If I lived in Chicago and needed to charge my car, I'd absolutely want this reported on.
Anytime there has been a gas shortage and long lines (like when Florida faces a hurricane) it is quite newsworthy. Both for the people that live in the area (so they can make other accommodations) and nationally so they know they should probably stay clear of the area. Are you running around complaining about that reporting as well?
>There are way more interesting and important issues to report on, and I wish that NPR, which is one of my main news sources, would do a better job.
Like what? You're acting as if there's some major breaking story they ignored to report on this. Can you point to anything beyond a vague "there's other things they could report on and this isn't interesting to me personally"? You haven't actually stated why this isn't newsworthy beyond you don't feel it is. What about "hey don't go to a supercharger if you live in Chicago and it's super cold" isn't important or newsworthy to Tesla owners/renters/drivers?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-c...
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook.amp
https://abc7news.com/amp/chicago-area-tesla-charging-station...
I think what it is is that you are coming out to defend Tesla because you’re taking this as a personal attack.
Ok this particular issue I would defend Tesla because I do think the story is blown out of proportion (with different news outlets having differing motivations).
There are other issues on which I am very critical of Tesla, such as hiring and labor practices.
There are very few, if any, people or companies or organizations who are “all evil” or “all good”.
The problem is that as humans we tend to pick a side and then confirmation bias kicks in. We can all be better.