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>So you really should expect true Christians, on average, to gradually become better people.

Only if I accept their beliefs as accurate.

Or even their professions of belief to actually be something approaching truthful.

But there are many incentives, both on a self-deceptive psychology level, and on a societal-wide level, for wanting to be seen as a virtuous and forthright person irrespective of one's actual behaviours or beliefs.

You shouldn’t have to accept the beliefs, just the virtues, if it’s a religion with a stated goal of making people virtuous (excluding some polytheistic faiths, for instance).

The poster upthread said that the mechanism for becoming better people was that the Holy Spirit makes it so. If the Holy Spirit doesn't exist, then the only mechanism for self-improvement is one's own ability to make those improvements, consciously.

Virtues alone don't make people better. Doing the hard work to introspect and actually make yourself better... that's what makes you better.

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