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Comment by ender341341 | Hacker News Reader

Other possible reasons

- We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above)

- Dealers are still acting like there's a supply shortage, so prices are still up but lots are full

- Everyone (pretty much) but tesla has commited to migrating to NACS, so if you buy a car now you'll need an adapter, and depending on where you are tesla's chargers are have half the speed if you're using the adapter (like if you're on a 800v based car)

- Gas prices seem less volatile at the moment (we'll see how much that stays as the election gets closer)

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> - We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above)

I'm sorry, what recession?

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-a...

> In the year ending in November, real wages grew by about 0.8 percent for all workers and 1.1 percent for the 80% of workers who are production and non-supervisory workers. Further, wage inequality fell. The ratio of wages at the 90th percentile compared to the 10th percentile fell by nearly 6 percent over the year.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2023/12/19/...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-i...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/strong-wage-growth-gave-ameri...

We're on the upswing (hopefully it sticks around)

My use of recession there may be a bit glib and poorly chosen, but people are feeling like job security is way down, and finding a new job is a way slower prospect than it has been. Every non-upper middle class and up person I regularly talk to has locked down their finances, upper middle and up seems to be less effected but still less likely to buy big purchases with interest higher than it has been in 15ish years.

I do thank you for your links though, those recovery stats are better than I thought they were, I probably should have put that reason on the bottom of my list with a disclaimer, I try to be much less doom and gloom than some of my family but it came across stronger here than I meant it too.

Tesla's consistently score low on reliability and are expensive to repair. I would love an EV but place a high weight factor on reliability.

I thought Tesla's were low reliability across ALL vehicles (ICE included) but were the most reliable of all EV's?

I guess it comes down to what "reliable" means. In my opinion if it has a failure but runs, drives, is safe and comfortable it's "reliable". For example I read lots of complaints about squeaks or rattles when music is played. I don't call that "unreliable"

> I thought Tesla's were low reliability across ALL vehicles (ICE included) but were the most reliable of all EV's?

My impression is very much the other way around: EVs are more reliable across the board for all vehicles (especially over ICE; most of the categories of unreliability that ICE invented don't exist at all for most EVs; catalytic convertors, belts, transmissions, spark plugs, ...) and somehow Tesla has managed to be the least reliable EV manufacturer despite their head start and despite some manufacturers intentionally sabotaging their EV car efforts to try to sell more hydrogen (Toyota) or dumber reasons.

It's reported that Tesla vehicles have an average of 171 mechanical issues per 100 vehicles. For reference, the average number for most automakers hovers around 120 problems per 100 vehicles.

Yes EVs should be more reliable on paper, but Tesla's aren't.

I agree they SHOULD be. But from what I can find online it's not the case.

ICE is more complicated - more moving parts - but manufacturers have had 100 years of experience building them.

It is about the number of mechanical issues per hundred vehicles and on that metric Tesla scores appallingly.

https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-....

I thought NACS _is_ Tesla's charger? i.e. they're been migrated from the start?

> I thought NACS _is_ Tesla's charger?

No, NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end. All that's happened is that the plug has been standardized as CCS type 3 (aka J3400).

Some older Tesla's don't support CCS and need a CCS retrofit before they'll work with CCS chargers (including ones with Tesla's plug).

Correct, on rereading what I wrote I see its confusingly written

We’re not in a recession. GDP is growing and for the last several quarters, wage growth has outpaced inflation.

People who aren't upper middle class can't afford a tesla

Tesla's changers are *half(?) the speed...?

I hadn't heard this.

Not exactly half the speed, but that the vehicle needs to boost the voltage coming from the charger in order to charge the battery. For some cars this is limited to around 100kW, way less than charging the battery from a sufficiently high voltage directly.

For high end cars like Porsche Taycan you can configure the rated wattage of this DC-DC converter.

most existing tesla chargers are 400v (I believe the cybertruck is their first to use 800v), so for other fast charging cars (like kia/hyundai GMP based ev6/ioniq 5) you only get half the speed, so as they update this will start to fall away as an issue.

The existing chargers for these cars are much slower than the slower Tesla chargers, so it's not like these cars will face an overall worse experience.

No, these cars charge at maximum 240kW when the voltage is sufficient. But on a Tesla charger without sufficient voltage they charge at 100kW. Therefore the experience is significantly worse.

This is only true for somewhat old and obsolete Tesla superchargers, like V1 and V2. Since the introduction of Supercharger V3 they're all 400-1000V, so any car, with any internal voltage can charge at their rated speeds.

I believe you've mixed up the versions. That's only true for Supercharger V4, not V3. V3 did not support high voltages. V1 and V2 did not speak the CCS protocol so they were even more obsolete.

In Europe the V3 superchargers are 1000VDC, it's a big label of them that says so. Could it be that they're different in other regions?

It's very likely Europe version numbers are 1 below US in that case as yeah in the US it's the V4 for 1000v.

have the speed - half*? the speed maybe?

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