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Comment by toast0 | Hacker News Reader

> I was trying to find the range of gas cars vs electric in 1912, and it looks like gas cars at that period tended to be a little over 100 miles and the best electrics were 80, with most at 50. It’s too bad the Model T wasn’t electric.

It's pretty trivial to range extend a gas vehicle within reasonable limits. Gas cans had a lot of development (the shape and features of a modern metal gas can came together in the 1930s), but any container sturdy enough and sealable will work. In a model T, fuel was fed by gravity, so tank capacity is strongly limited by where you can put the tank. On a vehicle with a fuel pump, there would be more flexibility (my first car had a 33 gallon tank... if you combined that with a fuel efficient powertrain, the range would be huge)

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Yes. Those are the reasons why gas was chosen.

But it doesn't make the question "where would we be now, if the choice had been made different" less interesting.

Kind of depends on broad the answer is.

In isolation, sure, battery chemistry might've gone a little further. But I suspect it would've plateaued sooner without the sophisticated battery management systems that modern integrated circuits enabled.

When taken in scope of events of the 20th century like the World Wars? Countries that had adopted electric would've found themselves at a decisive disadvantage against countries that chose oil. The gas piston engine enabled advances in aviation and blue water ships. I have my doubts electric adopting countries would've survived against those advantages.

I doubt that electric armored vehicles will fare well against oil counterparts in the next century. Powering large batteries every day on a long frontline like Ukraine / Russia is not easy. Transporting and hiding oil is easier.

The US military is starting to adopt hybrid vehicles. This reduces the need to deliver fuel to combat zones and can also lower IR signatures.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2023/2/28/a...

They still get all of their power from oil tough.

About full electric vehicles, according to the article they are planned for 2050 and

> “If your batteries are so heavy that you have a five-ton truck that has four-and-a-half tons of batteries on it, it doesn't leave a lot of room for cargo … and how am I going to recharge an electric vehicle in the places that we're going to be?”

Internal combustion piston engines weren't used much for blue water ships in the World Wars. Steam engines, both piston and turbine, were more common for power, cost, and efficiency reasons. ICEs were mostly used on smaller boats, as well as submarines.

ICEs were crucial for aviation during the World Wars. Even today we're barely able to build electric airplanes that can go anywhere.

and at the time of the Model T you could just about run them on anything with hydrocarbons in them with some adjustments. A electric car required infrastructure that just didn't exist at the time until after the Rural Electrification Act in 1936

> infrastructure that just didn't exist at the time until after the Rural Electrification Act in 1936

While not entirely critical I suppose, not getting stranded in an EV today also relies on much newer stuff as well, like the on board computer using cellular communications and GPS to help find a charging station within range of your destination. I imagine that in the absence of this assistance, the number of disabled EVs would be intolerably high, and delivering a can of gas is much simpler than delivering electricity or towing.

also if the amount of EV charging stations was the same as the amount of gas stations we wouldn't have that issue as well. Early gas was bought at stores in cans most of the time, bulk pumping was just not very common.

> It's pretty trivial to range extend a gas vehicle within reasonable limits. Gas cans...

gas cans!? the way we generally range extend a gas vehicle is to pull into a gas station and a couple minutes later you're on your way again.

For electrics, gas cans would be additional heavy batteries, while filling stations have the longer refill time, which can fit your schedule (recharge while at work) or not (stop to recharge every few hours on a long drive).

(please don't all start telling me about quick charging and a list of neat things to do while you wait and how the mindfulness is overall better. I'm just making a comment about available means to extend the range of a car)

in the transition phase (horse to car), a farmer with a model T could use a horse and buggy to bring a gas can to a stalled car. Would have to tow the battery car to where there is electricity and a rectifier. Look up "rural electrification program" to see how little electricity there was in the hinterlands at that time.

At the time rural domestic light was provided by kerosene lamps. The kerosene was sold in four-gallon(?) tins by general stores. Gasoline was initially sold in the same way, as another product just like kerosene at your local general store.

Familiarity is another thing that would have pushed people towards gasoline rather than electric. As well as the easy replication of the distribution network, by the same suppliers.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene_lamp

Electricity was not just unfamiliar to people. It was not understood. It was magic, possibly not just good magic.

That was a time before electrical engineering as mature field really existed. The situation parallels software today.

It didn't help that Edison was electrocuting animals across the country to frighten people about AC in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant)

The mysterious workings of electrical gadgets were also the inspiration for Rube Goldberg's cartoons.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/story-behind-rube-gol...

That was the electrical zeitgest a little over a century ago.

Did you even read the article you linked to?

> The story of Topsy fell into obscurity for the next 70 years but has become more prominent in popular culture, partly because the film of the event still exists. In popular culture, Thompson and Dundy's killing of Topsy has switched attribution, with claims it was an anti-alternating current demonstration organized by Thomas A. Edison during the war of the currents. Edison was never at Luna Park and the electrocution of Topsy took place ten years after the war of currents.

what had a 33 gallon tank?

Scout II, factory option.

That's pretty awesome.

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