They were posted in a previous thread, and the way they were written made it unclear what was actually covered. Is Apple allegedly infringing on the idea of putting a blood oxygen sensor in a watch, a technical innovation in how to do so effectively, or something else entirely?
US-10945648-B2 seems to cover the heart of the issue. It specifically calls out
> four photodiodes configured to receive light emitted by the LEDs, the four photodiodes being arranged to capture light at different quadrants of tissue of a user;
Which is what I believe Apple was going to change via software disabling one.
https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/18/apple-watch-import-ban-...
Honestly it seems stretching to say the first one is patentable imho and the second one is easily changed for future hardware versions, which is why I presume Apple isn’t in licensing talks.
My impression of the whole debacle is that Masimo hired up a bunch of smart people, they invented this tech while being paid next-to-nothing by Masimo (as Masimo didn’t have the product development chops to actually bring anything to market), Apple saw that the tech was good and just neeeed a product/marketing team, Apple tried to acquire Masimo, their CEO tried to play hard to get, so Apple ”stole” (offered compensation commensurate to their technical prowess) all the engineers who actually made the thing and just built it in house from “scratch”.
It’s a tricky case to be sure. But I’m all for the outcome where consumers get cool tech and the people who actually made it (notably not the Masimo CEO) get fair compensation for their work.
The aspect a lot of people here gloss over is that the patent that Masimo owns wasn’t actually developed by anyone currently at Masimo. Apple “owns” all the people, but Masimo “owns” their accomplishments. It’s weird.
Your impression that Masimo "doesn't have product development chops to bring anything to market" is ... odd, considering Masimo is a nearly 40 year old company which has devices in most of the hospitals I see as a paramedic bringing patients in, and $2B a year in revenue.
> Apple tried to acquire Masimo, their CEO tried to play hard to get
Masimo stated in court - and Apple never challenged it - that their discussions were around partnership and licensing and tech. I have no idea where your claim that Masimo is just hurt/offended that they weren't "acquired by Apple". I can't even imagine why Masimo would be an acquisition target for Apple - there's an entire world of difference between personal healthcare and the world of ICUs, ORs and ERs that Masimo mostly plays in.
Their "Root" devices are actually some of the nicer ones I've used in healthcare - https://www.masimo.com/products/continuous/root/
There's definitely an undercurrent in a lot of these threads to paint Apple as being attacked by a patent troll.
Masimo makes as you note, industrial devices. The Root devices that I mention are not ever going to be used at home, even by the ultra wealthy.
I mean you are talking about devices that do CO-oximetry (effectively "arterial blood gas"), brain function monitoring, connect to ventilators (ISA capnography for intubated patients) and anesthesia machines and pushing aggregated data into EPIC. Like I said, these are devices being used in intensive care units, not simple finger pulse oximetry, reflected or otherwise.
They are not "gatekeeping" this technology for the ultra wealthy so poor Apple Watch owners (of which I am on my third) can't get access to it. They're entirely different models with different purposes, in an entirely differing market segment.
Also if you're referring to "potentially life saving analysis" with respect to pulse oximetry on the Apple Watch, which does it only on demand, and is not an FDA regulated medical device, regardless of patents, there's an exaggeration happening. Patients with chronic hypoxic and similar issues are not relying on Apple Watches to "potentially save their lives".
And why do you think engineers are making too much money while CEO’s are waking away with record profits off their backs?
All in all your argument is just anti-commoner pro-elite system gamers, and if that’s how you see things so be it. But I think people should be able to have their pulses measured even if the FDA doesn’t approve and they don’t have chronic hypoxia and they don’t want to integrate with Epic and they only need it on demand. I’ve had family members that were told they must go through complicated insurance processes to get fancy tens of thousands of dollar pulse measures, but then got by just fine with the watch. Masimo wants to put an end to that to secure their own profits, and this entire site loves them for it.
As soon as the technology had a consumer application, the market value of the expertise changed drastically.
Though in all likelihood it will be settled out of court.
Right, that’s my whole point really. People just look at this as “bad guy Apple” when really it’s a bunch of individual engineers getting absolutely shafted while the HN community cheers.
So Apple and their shareholders should make nothing on this either in a completely fair outcome?
Imo it’s appropriate for the government to step in and allow the general public to receive access to this life saving equipment without folks needing a “good insurance” plan whereby some bean counter with no medical training has looked over all your medical records and decided you are worth dropping bundles of money on to have a constant pulse taken.