Comment by lukeck | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lukeck | Hacker News Reader

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> the ones for the CV vaccine were listed on many pages of tiny text (both from Pfizer and from Moderna)

The size of the pages side effects were written on says absolutely nothing about what the side effects are or their severity.

> Then there are the long term consequences, many studies keep coming out with surprises (recent buzzword “Ribosomal frameshift”

Ribosomal frameshift is in itself not a “long term consequence.” It is simply that depending on where translational of a piece of mRNA starts, different proteins can be produced. This is an essential part of how our own (or any other organism’s mRNA) is translated into proteins. other proteins present in a cell can regulate which proteins can be produced - again an essential part of how our cells function. This has been known about for decades.

It is one of the main potential areas that could lead to side effects of an mRNA vaccine so understanding what other proteins might be translated and under what circumstances is important.

Please don’t fear monger without any actual evidence to back it.

I think the methylated pseudouridine is actually a tRNA component. Could be wrong. I’m not sure what the 3D structure of the vaccine mRNA is, but it could depart quite a bit from the high-school-biology linear strand portrayal of mRNA.

> other proteins present in a cell can regulate which proteins can be produced - again an essential part of how our cells function

I thought manipulating this was a design goal.

Regardless, I somewhat doubt the simple story presented to the public is 100% accurate.

> The size of the pages side effects were written on says absolutely nothing about what the side effects are or their severity.

Naive question: Do they say what the side effects are and their severity in an easily accessible manner somewhere?

The official package insert can be read here: https://www.drugs.com/pro/moderna-covid-19-vaccine.html

From the sibling comment link I would say, yes:

5 WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS

5.1 Management of Acute Allergic Reactions

Appropriate medical treatment to manage immediate allergic reactions must be immediately available in the event an acute anaphylactic reaction occurs following administration of Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine.

Monitor Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine recipients for the occurrence of immediate adverse reactions according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-consideration...).

5.2 Myocarditis and Pericarditis

Postmarketing data with authorized or approved mRNA COVID-19 vaccines demonstrate increased risks of myocarditis and pericarditis, particularly within the first week following vaccination. For Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, the observed risk is highest in males 18 years through 24 years of age. Although some cases required intensive care support, available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of symptoms with conservative management. Information is not yet available about potential long-term sequelae.

The CDC has published considerations related to myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination, including for vaccination of individuals with a history of myocarditis or pericarditis (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-consideration...).

5.3 Syncope

Syncope (fainting) may occur in association with administration of injectable vaccines. Procedures should be in place to avoid injury from fainting.

5.4 Altered Immunocompetence

Immunocompromised persons, including individuals receiving immunosuppressive therapy, may have a diminished response to Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine.

5.5 Limitations of Vaccine Effectiveness

Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine may not protect all vaccine recipients.

Those last two points are why it is was the right thing to do for ostensibly healthy people to get vaccinated.

Because there are people we know it doesn't work for and people we don't know it doesn't work for.

How did that make it "the right thing to do" for healthy people to take the COVID shots? Given their extremely poor effectiveness against transmission, the odds of the groups in those last two points eventually being infected with SARS-CoV-2 were no different with vaccine uptake at 60% or 90% or 99%. What, then, is accomplished by forcing healthy adolescents (for example) to take these shots?

I lost track of COVID research in the past two years. Can you please provide me some good articles about bad transmission effectiveness? I’ve seen this mentioned many times here, but my search seems contradict to that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10073587/

Conflicting papers have been published on transmission effectiveness. Everyone believes whatever they want.

“Similarly, researchers in California observed no major differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in terms of SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx, even in those with proven asymptomatic infection.

Thus, the current evidence suggests that current mandatory vaccination policies might need to be reconsidered, and that vaccination status should not replace mitigation practices such as mask wearing, physical distancing, and contact-tracing investigations, even within highly vaccinated populations.”

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

I thought that we had some new hard evidence, or revelation. So does this mean we still don’t know, or is there a considerable skew to one side in the statistical meaning, like in the case of eating red meat, or climate change, but as with everything there are contradicting studies?

I like to look at the big numbers when it comes to the effectiveness of measures. To me they tell the story. But that requires a lot of work, so I can’t really recommend diving into it.

None of the studies showing some level of effectiveness against transmission/infection show anything close to what would be necessary to establish herd immunity and thus provide durable protection against eventual infection for those who can't be vaccinated.

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