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Comment by naz | Hacker News Reader

As a Model Y owner, the lack of a service interval is really annoying. I want to pay Tesla to make sure my car stays safe and reliable, but I can't.

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All this should be recommended in the UI.

The car DOES have maintenance needs.

Lots of people in models X & S are surprised to find their seemingly ok tires are NOT OK because they wear very quickly on the non-visible inside edge.

there are brakes on the car, which have pads and fluid. There is coolant for the battery.

Honestly, there should be a maintenance screen in the UI. You should be able to replace tires, or windshield wipers or fluid and the UI should keep track of it. Even if it just says "last replaced 10/11/12 @ 23,456 miles" or "inspected 11/12/13" or something.

There is a service screen in the UI with alerts and details on when tires were last changed. There is an alert for windshield fluid.

If Apple made a car, I would expect "Preferences -> Logbook -> ["Show logs", "Add Service Record...", "Save in PDF"]" menu, never heard Tesla have one in Settings menu.

my UI doesn't have that. I've changed my tires myself and there was nowhere to enter the data. Do you mean the app or in car?

If a non-tesla person changes my tires, they haven't done anything.

I don't take my car to tesla for tires anymore. They charge you for everything, and offer no warranty. (also, my tires cannot be rotated)

From the manual:

> To see the miles driven since your last tire rotation or replacement, touch Controls > Service and look under Last Tire Service. After the tires on Model 3 are rotated, replaced, or swapped, update your vehicle's tire configuration by touching Reset, or by touching Wheel & Tire > Tires from the same screen. This allows your vehicle to reset the learned tire settings and improve your driving experience. This also clears and resets the tread wear alert for the vehicle until you travel 6,250 miles (10,000 km) and low tread depth is detected again.

had to look it up because I wasn't sure where it was but knew I had seen it.

Translation: Teslas, not sure which model you looked up, have such bad suspension and stearing that tires, ubder regular use, worn down inconsistently. Which shouldn't be an issue in modern cars running proper tires and tire pressure.

> Translation: Teslas, not sure which model you looked up, have such bad suspension and stearing that tires, ubder regular use, worn down inconsistently. Which shouldn't be an issue in modern cars running proper tires and tire pressure.

Ah yes, "Big Tesla" must have gotten to...checks notes...Michelin tires[0], Ford[1], Toyota[2] and more...

Your ignorance to cars and blind hatred to Tesla is showing BTW.

[0]: https://www.michelinman.com/auto/auto-tips-and-advice/tire-m...

[1]: https://www.suttonford.com/service/service-and-parts-tips/wh...

[2]: https://www.performancetoyotapa.com/service/service-tips/how...

Inconsistent tire wear has nothing to do with the tires and all with the car so. Oh, and wrong tires (as in tires not meeting speed, load or dimension requirements), tires wrongly mounted on the rims (common among "tuners") or wrong tire preasure.

How much do you know about cars or mechanical engineering?

And where is inconsistent wear mentioned in there?

E.g. in Teslas user manual for the Model 3: swap tire every 10,000 km. And in other comments the last times the same question was discussed. Indirectly in the high number of inspection failures due to suspension issues.

Again, just like every car company ever says? Check the links above. Everyone recommends rotating your tires every 5-10k miles.

Required =|= Recommended

And where is required mentioned?

Stop being completely obtuse and actually read what you're trying to refute before making a comment out of your ass please.

I'm running a Model 3 with 2023.44.39 on it. In the Service menu there are a variety of exactly the things you mentioned.

In the top right corner there is "Tire Service Mileage" with an estimate of when you should service your tires. There is a reset link under that, which links into the "Wheel and Tire" service tab with more maintenance options.

There are alerts for nearly all of the things you mentioned: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E95DAAD...

Regarding the tire wear, the car is heavy with instant torque. I've had to replace my tires quite a few times, but it's the only thing that has needed much servicing for me in the past three years. I'd expect that from a new car though, and I don't have much confidence in it's longevity.

It should be possible to equip the car with enough sensors to detect or predict maintenance needs. Tesla's approach is, however, still incomplete. The powertrain is sensored enough, suspension/brakes/tires aren't.

Just a few data points. :)

My direct experience with power train sensors has been a loud noise and lots of red triangle messages that something has failed (drive motor).

Another time my direct experience with inside edge wear has been... a pop and a hiss. Then the tire pressure readout gave a red triangle to say the tire had low pressure and the number was dropping to zero. (google "tesla inside edge tire wear")

My direct experience with many flat tires has been -- tesla roadside assistance will waste the rest of your day or night. I've considered buying that aftermarket spare.

And the battery fuse went once - I got a huge red message:

"BMS_u031 Battery Fuse Requires Replacement Soon - OK to drive, schedule service"?

Turns out telsa doesn't actually KNOW if the fuse needs to be replaced - you have to bring it in (google BMS_U031) It is several hundred dollars to replace.

If your car has a 12v battery, it will eventually die. The battery is fairly expensive.

actually, most maintenance stuff is hidden away. Wish I could unhide it, even if tesla only did it when out of warranty.

Funny experience with vw - is had front brake pad sensors. Ofc rear pads wore off and never tripped any sensor...

Brakes are probably going to last for at least 100k miles easily. Mine are still fine after 150k miles.

Pads and rotors - yes. Fluid - probably not. Usually changing fluid every 2 years is a good idea. Both to keep brakes performance and prevent rusting due to water slowly making it’s way into the system.

Tesla recommends checking the fluid level once every 4 years. Brakes on Teslas normally are not used much, so the fluid doesn't get heated.

Brake fluid is not flushed due to heat cycling, that is what bleed maintenance is for. Flushing every 2 years is because brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water), and even brake systems are not perfectly sealed. Water in the fluid reduces its effectiveness and can cause rusting in the brake lines, leading to failure.

EVERY vehicle should have brake fluid flushed every 2 years. That Tesla recommends 4 years is straight out incompetent.

My manual says:

Fluid Replacement Intervals

Do not change or top up the Battery coolant or brake fluid. Tesla service technicians replace fluids at the regularly scheduled service intervals:

• Brake Fluid. Every 2 years or 25,000 miles (40,000 km), whichever comes first.

• Battery coolant. Every 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first.

Those seem like very reasonable recommendations. Thanks for sharing that. I have never read a Tesla owner’s manual, so I was replying to what was shared previously.

On a system as critical as the brakes, I highly doubt they yolo just guessed and said, eh, just make it 4 years, that sounds good. I find it far more believable they did extensive testing of the brake system, which they build, and thus know just how much water is and isn't getting into the system, and what a good fluid replacement interval is.

Or maybe everyone that works there is an incompetent monkey and they never test anything, ever. It's probably that, definitely. That's also why we see so many stories in the news about 5 year old Tesla's brakes failing. Given that we all know how long full self driving has been promised, I'm sure we'll get those news stories any day now.

Like anything in safety critical engineering there are margins of safety. Seal failures in the top end of the brake system can cause water ingress without immediate impact on the braking system but will eventually cause hard lines to rust through, causing sudden and catastrophic failure of the braking system.

The hydraulic portion of the braking system in a Tesla is not significantly different than any other passenger car, so yes, it’s utterly incompetent to recommend twice the maintenance interval.

Maybe Tesla is just hyper-focused on Silicon Valley? I could see brakes fluid lasting that long in such a nice climate. In Northern Europe where lower part of the car is in salty water bath for 6 months a year… Checking brake fluid LEVEL every 4 years feels like looking for a trouble.

I've never changed every two years on any vehicle.

That's a useless data point without knowing how much you drive. a taxicab or police vehicle racks up hundreds of thousands of miles per year, and thus needs fluids far more often than every two years.

Driving style, mileage and climate. Nice and dry climate is one thing, wet snowy & slushy roads for months every year is another thing.

Regenerative braking means the pads basically never get used, so they should be good for a really long time compared to an ICE vehicle.

Wait, Tesla does not have that?

If not, that is really, really dumb, and there is no way to justify not doing that. Especially for car that probably has more sensors, electronics and software than most cars (that also provide such info).

They do, the parent is either on an older tesla software platform or they haven't looked at settings > service and have ignored the alerts when they occur.

my car does not have that.

otoh it has a dashboard and a rim around the display to lean your hand on while you're trying to hit some ridiculously small (in a moving car) touchscreen target.

The regular inspection for ICE vehicles is centered around oil changes, air filter change (engine, not cabin), valve checks and distribution chain/belt changes. Everything else, from brake pads (wear sensors entered the chat), tires (life varies a lot, from 10k km to over 40k km for cars), windshield wipers (no determined lifetime, change it when it breaks) to brake fluid (recommended to change every 3 years) are done opportunistically with some oil changes.

Without an ICE, the only regular maintenance you need is brake fluid. Everything else depends loosely on kilometers and style of driving and quality of materials (wipers).

How much does this vary by jurisdiction? I remember the UK has the "MOT test" which I think does rather more than that, but that's just the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test

The official inspection is different by jurisdiction, the maintenance plan depends on the manufacturer. The inspection and maintenance are different, for example in regular maintenance schedule there is no emissions check, while the inspection does it. The other way around, maintenance includes checks on all fluid level (coolant, brake, washer) while the inspection does not.

Yes, this is the case in most European jurisdictions. UK mandates inspections once per year (starting 3 years after manufacture). There also appears to be a 2014 EU directive (2014/45) that mandates periodic inspections of most cars across EU states at least every 2 years (starting at most 4 years after manufacture).

Sure, but why wouldn't Tesla write some software for those items like other car brands do? Let the driver know it's time to replace the brake fluid, tell the driver the estimated wear (+ sensor warning) on the brake pads?

If I had to guess? Putting a service interval reminder would contradict the idea that EV's need absolutely no maintenance whatsoever.

That being said I vaguely recall hearing that Teslas had an annual service interval in the manual. Is that not the case?

What prohibits you from going to the service center yearly or every 10k miles?

Assuming this, no scheduled services, is Tesla policy, it is very well possible that Tesla doesn't have task lists in place for said checks. Which would be bad...

Tesla has some recommendations in user manual. I almost bought model y. So I saw, that there is recommendation to check brakes after winter and salty roads or something alike. I also guess, that any other repair shop could do generic check as well. Teslas have brakes, suspensions, brake fluids and many other “normal” parts.

Sure, Tesla has some things in the user manual. A workshop so needs specific task lists in the workshop manual, otherwise the inspection varies by day and person doing it. Because without said workshop manuals, mechanics are left out in the cold with regards to what has to be done. Propably includes a liability risk, you follow approved check lists from the OEM and you are propably save if something happens. You don't, miss something, an accident happens and the liability question is a lot less clear.

There is no specific task list in the workshop manual. I had cars and motorcycles of various brands and, except for Mazda, nobody has a good list, while Mazda pretends to have one. Even in good car shops, brand or no brand, including the one owned by my family, there is no official list for a "good check", they just ask you: "what do you want checked?". Why? Because if you ask them to check everything, like Mazda says it does, it will cost a lot for little benefits. And car shops will be happy to charge labor for "checks".

The best checks I get is when I ask my cousin (owner of a car shop, certified to do inspections): "take my car for a couple of days as your daily driver, if you notice anything wrong then fix it". Otherwise the official testing includes: suspension and direction (includes indirectly wheel bearing), brakes, emissions, headlight alignment, rust or corrosion signs, tire integrity and wear vs indicator, brake fluid level, antifreeze level, washer fluid level, signs of fluid leakage in the engine compartment or at wheels. That's it.

I read the instruction manuals from all my cars and motorcycles. They are a minimum, in my opinion, I check myself a lot more, regularly.

Funny, the workshop manual, true it is a single one from the 80s, has quite detailed interval tasks listed. And the detailed instructions later, identified by task code. On top of that, it includes all / most steps regarding diagnostics. And, obviously, detailed instructions regarding repair and replacement of bits and pieces. I never bothered checking those manuals for modern cars so, first I don't do that work and second there is only so much one can do anyway.

The right to repair move started because lately it is difficult to impossible to perform some repairs by yourself and there is a lack of documentation accessible to owners. Yes, in the '80 you got specifications, manuals and guides for most cars, almost none today.

20k Bosch diagnostic tester has the Tesla service plan: https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/bosch-integrat... If workshop does not have diagnostic equipment… one shouldn’t bring their car from this century there.

Doesn't it show you when to do some maintenance based on sensors? BMW has a display that has miles on it, but those miles are only rough estimates. It may say 50k miles after replacing brake pads, but 40k miles later that could have changed to zero or it could only reach zero after 60k miles. The indication for service is based on a sensor at the brake pad, not a service interval in miles.

did they remove the service plan? My Model S came with a 4 year service plan where every quarter they would flush the coolant, filters, etc

Seems so, the official owners manual foresees some maintenance, but there is no regular service schedule.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E95DAAD...

Edit: interestingly, the German link seems to show something else: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/de_us/GUID-E95DAAD...

Every quarter? Even when driving a 15 year old combustion car I have never had a car that needed to go for service that often! My new EV has a two-year service interval to check the coolant and brakes.

It wasn't too long ago you were supposed to do an oil change every 3000 miles which for the average American will happen in less than a quarter.

I generally do my oil every 7500 miles using full synthetic.

When I take it in for service I assume they don’t use the expensive stuff and chnage it at 5k miles.

Either way, that’s 2x a year for me. I’m probably below average driving at just shy of 15k miles/year. I think the average is around 15k though. That would be 2-3 oil changes if you did them at similar intervals.

Some companies (ie: BMW) mandate more frequent chnages and higher octane gas etc etc. I don’t use those cars. If I can’t service them myself I won’t buy it (Tesla included)

That stopped in the late 80s / early 90s... Heck, even my V8 (technologically from the 60s) has oil changes every 6k miles...

You could go to a third party garage. The mandatory state inspections will detect the safety issues too.

Not sure if sarcasm

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