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Comment by jorams | Hacker News Reader

> ...signed 42 bills late Friday and vetoed another 43, ... of legislation approved by state lawmakers earlier this year.

It seems to me something is very broken if half the laws approved by lawmakers are getting vetoed by the governor. Is that normal for states? Does this not lead to an extremely inefficient lawmaking process?

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I can't speak to New York, but this isn't uncommon for a few reasons:

1) Statewide and Nationwide elections attract more voters than local elections. This can mean that statewide officials such as the governor are from a party that more state voters support, while the state legislature is comprised of the opposite party, whose voters are more engaged in off years and smaller local elections. Michigan, for example, has had exclusively Democratic US Senators for a long time but the state legislature spent a long time controlled by Republicans.

2) Many state legislatures have appallingly gerrymandered districts to reinforce the party in power. Wisconsin, for instance, is very much a "purple" state (a close mix of Republican and Democratic voters), but its state legislature has Republican supermajorities due to gerrymandering.

Not any more. Wisc SC just threw out the maps

Those don't describe New York politics in the slightest.

New York's governor has been a Democrat since Pataki gave up the job in 2006. The state legislature has had a Democratic majority since 2011, though for many years a small group of supposed Democrats (supported by supposed Democrat Andrew Cuomo) caucused with the Republicans, giving them control. This history of self-owns by the New York State Democratic Party has nothing to do with the forces you suggest, and are in fact due to run-of-the mill nepotism, corruption, and machine politics.

It would be nice if someone could convince Pataki to run again. He had enough desire for a presidential campaign that would never have worked when the national base wants a demagogue. With the younger members of his party modeling themselves after the wrong person, there's an opening for an old guard with experience to have one last go at it.

I mean, maybe? The New York Republican Party is such an utter joke I'm not sure it would matter.

Imho, that laws the legislative has voted on can just be vetoed by someone who is the head of the executive is the main problem. But this mix of executive and legislative seems to be normal in the US, so maybe my unease is just based on what I'm used to over here in Germany.

While the President of Germany formally has to accept all laws it's a far less active role. According to the constitution, he's only allowed to not accept a law if he thinks it either was voted on in a process that's forbidden by the constitution or is itself against the constitution. This has happened only nine times since the federal republic exists.

edit: The president is also not the head of the executive, just so no one is confused. The chancellor doesn't have any special role in getting a law accepted.

It's a practical acknowledgment of the reality that if the executive branch declines to execute a law, there isn't terribly much that can realistically be done.

The legislative can override the executive by a super majority in the US. It’s a good balance IMO.

And then the executive can null proc the law.

The only way to make laws that stick is to include a private right of action so that any enterprising / money-grubbing lawyer can make money enforcing the law you wrote.

Unfortunately NY isn't really known for efficient government.

That is, unfortunately, the recent normal in New York Democratic politics. The machine politicians who reach leadership positions have little incentive to advance popular priorities, and instead use every opportunity to strike back at members of their own party for supposed disloyalties.

Hochul is more or less the same as Cuomo, unfortunately.

Yes, it’s by design through checks and balances.

Checks and balances are important, but half of all bills failing to make it through the governor's office is enough to raise an eyebrow even for someone who's a fan of checks and balances.

The NY governor just vetoed more bills in a single sitting than all of George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden did in their full terms combined. That's not just checks and balances, there's something very wrong there.

As you've identified this is not the rational application of checks and balances, this is settling scores and executing vendettas in machine politics. Welcome to New York, baby!

How would you tell without reading each bill?

It's not necessarily a problem with the governor, but there's definitely a problem somewhere in the system.

In a functioning government (especially one dominated by a single party like NY is), the legislature and governor collaborate closely as the bills are being developed. The legislature knows in advance what the governor will veto and is typically acting in good faith and won't waste everyone's time by send huge numbers of bills that are doomed.

What's happening here indicates a serious breakdown in communication and trust between branches of government, branches which, again, are ostensibly run by the same party. That's not normal.

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