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nirvana

True story:

Recruiter: "So you were writing Java code that talked to an Oracle Database, right?"

Me: "Right"

Her: "What version of Oracle was it?"

Me: "8i I think"

Her: "Sorry, we're looking for people with 9i experience." (9i had just come out.)

Me: "Really? You know SQL[1] is a standard and I'm writing Java code anyway, we were using a ORM as well. I didn't even end up writing that much direct SQL code."

Her: "Sorry, the client specifically said Oracle 9i -- I'm looking at it right now. They're not looking for Sequal experience."

This is when I decided to always avoid recruiters if I possibly could.

[1] I pronounced this "Ess Que Ell" but she responded "Sequel" which I think was the name of another database vendor at the time.

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Both pronunciations (SQL/sequel) refer to the same thing, and both are correct.

http://patorjk.com/blog/2012/01/26/pronouncing-sql-s-q-l-or-...

I think his point was that the recruiter did not know this.

I just call it "sqwel" or "squeel" that way nobody is happy.

Reminds me very much of the job adverts I used to see asking for '5 years C#' when .Net was about 6 months out of Beta.

Either they only want people who worked for MS on the platform/language itself or the whole thing was copy/pasted by a recruiter.

I liked the theory that someday a recruiter would ask DHH how many years of Rails experience he has, and he should answer "all of them".

Wasn't there some actual recruiter offering DDH a senior rails developer position? I'm pretty sure I read about that in DHH's twitter stream some time ago.

Groupon didn't quite ask for his level but did ping him about web dev work.

https://gist.github.com/1285068#gistcomment-56327

Here's another true one:

"Do you have experience with APIs?"

"Uh...Yeah. Yeah, I do."

"How about electrons?"

(Just wait. It'll happen.)

I see some value in this type of thing. If someone can't bluff their way past a (non)technical recruiter, will they be able to handle a requirements meeting or communicate status to a PM? Some engineers really can only talk to other engineers.

What's the worst thing that could happen if you fibbed "Oh yeah 9i, I've used that too."? You'd get an interview with the database guy who actually knows the difference.

IME, a lot of the best programmers are anal (often to a fault), and won't lie in that situation.

Not because of ethics or morals but just because they refuse to say something they know is technically incorrect.

I have been hired largely on keyword matches before, it was a bad move.

Think about it: most everyone you're going to be working with will have been selected on such a basis as well. Not so much bad people, but on the whole a thoroughly uninspiring workplace where creativity was actively discouraged.

Unless I was really desperate, I would prefer not to get hired at a place that used that sort of process.

Like Sheldon Cooper in Big Bang Theory when the judge asked him to apologize, "I'm a scientist, I never apologize about the truth!"

Life just doesn't work that way. IME the people who fib a bit and embellish when applying for jobs because they know they can, they do a lot better than those who tell the truth all the time.

Reality is most employers put up fake 'requirements' because they don't know how else to find 'smart, can learn, gets stuff done'.

Are you advocating lying in job interviews?

I think he's advocating 'advancing your skill-set'.

Oh And: Self-Marketing, it isn't always evil.

But I'm being honest, sometimes you have to make yourself sound good to get the goods.

I think this is a valid to an extent, like accepting a title of "expert" in a technology used by the company that you know well but are not actually a real "expert" in. You and I know that the real experts are the guys constantly replying to stuff on the mailing lists and making lots of significant patches to the core of the project, but sometimes it's OK to condescend to use the vocabulary of the plebes and just embrace "expert" within that context. You aren't deceiving anyone here because it's just a different definition of a word, and you are using the definition that the other people expect. In fact one could say it's deceptive to insist on your specific concept of an expert when you know that the people interviewing just need someone qualified.

But I think claiming experience with an explicit version that was stated is going a little bit too far. It's important to clarify. Maybe someone actually does need help with the new platform, and after all, if they're having inept recruiters do their pre-hire screening, you're probably not missing much anyway.

There is a bit of line to fudge there but it definitely doesn't extend into falsifying tasks or skillsets imo.

Definitely. And I suppose I should have clarified; the 'advancing your skill-set' bit was a joke. Or at-least meant to have humour behind it. Sadly the internets doesn't pass off the jovial nature of my voice. :D

> What's the worst thing that could happen if you fibbed "Oh yeah 9i, I've used that too."

Getting a job with a company where clueless people make important decisions. Not everybody handles such situations well.

> What's the worst thing that could happen if you fibbed

Well, the worst thing would be if it was a trap question designed to weed out the people who lie at initial recruitment selection.

"Well, look, I was under an NDA, using 9i as a beta tester..."

Skin that cat!

"Sorry, but we can't stomach the risk of being seen as forcing you to divulge information that was acquired under an NDA. It just isn't worthwhile for us to risk the lawsuits."

>What's the worst thing that could happen if you fibbed "Oh yeah 9i, I've used that too."? Well, the managerial term is to manage expectation. But it's just effort that seems unnecessary* *-- perhaps it's just my current situation..

The worst thing that could happen? I might get the job and find that all of my coworkers were the kind of people who lie whenever they think it will advance their own interests. That is, I'd be working with people like you. That would be a terrible outcome.

Interestingly, microsoft SQL server is pronounced sequel server: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3594718/how-do-you-pronou...

I pronounce MySQL as My-ess-cue-el.

In my place, when people say "SQL" they usually mean "MS SQL Server". Perhaps that's what in her mind.

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