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Comment by akx | Hacker News Reader

Lidl does this too – the rotary tool Parkside PFBS 12 B3 comes with a charger that's obviously not USB-PD, but has an USB-C plug and it puts out a solid 13 volts at all times. (See https://www.kompernass.com/en/accessories/2316/charger-8 for an image.)

I sent Lidl a courteous and long mail about this and they didn't really care other than "please open a service ticket with your local Lidl", which I didn't care to do since what would they do?

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> courteous and long

How about urgent and short?

e.g. One day a kid will charge their toy over night with your 13v usb-c charger and they'll burn their house down.

Just a little too short, add:

“and this email notification demonstrates you are aware of the hazard which will be relevant in lawsuits.”

and they will respond with "We sincerely thank you for your concern. We have a 6 month email retention policy in place to address your issue"

Hypothetically, and just out of curiosity: if mint2 were to keep this email and it would be included as part of the evidence in a lawsuit, how would this bode for Lidl?

Assuming it wasn't mint2 that had the fire, it would almost surely go undetected in discovery. (Lidl would say "as required, we've searched for and provided all emails and care contacts referencing USB chargers".)

If you can't add anything useful, stay out.

Although I wonder if it was your house to burn down whether you might feel a little differently about doing the right thing.

The answer is, you CC trading standards(Or your country's equivalent) as well.

What makes you think I have negative opinions about doing the right thing, or my comments aren't useful.

Perhaps CCing trading standards is actually a good idea, and Im glad I raised a valid concern about the utility of emailing the supplier alone.

It didn't appear constructive, just implying that they were going to do their best to lose the email.

Here in the UK it's quite easy to get stuff fixed. A few years ago, a single complaint to trading standards by me got a can relabelled properly with its ingredients. Failing that, I know from prior experience that companies hate being embarrassed. They really value their image, and risking house fires for your consumers, it doesn't go down well.

What you posted came across as negative, and I'm afraid I have a fairly low tolerance for that. If I misread you, sorry.

I agree that it is a lot easier to do a drive by shoot down of someone else's idea than provide a constructive solution. That has to be balanced with the idea that a dose of realism is necessary for improvement and iteration.

As such, I don't think negative is always bad.

I’m really interested in which can you got relabelled! Could you disclose it?

In recognition of your email retention policy, I shall be resending this complaint at 5 month intervals, along with a running history of the previous complaints.

I didn't directly mention burning down the house, but I did say

"The takeaway of this is that given the plug looks exactly like a standard USB-C phone charger's plug, it's easy for a novice user (say, a child whose phone charger's wire has been bit through by the family dog) to attempt to charge a device not rated for 13 V using this charger, which is quite likely to damage the device."

I have the same tool and charger and only noticed the out-of-spec voltage after trying to charge the tool with a regular USB-C cable and charger. It's really disappointing someone thought this is a good design.

Newer revisions of the tool don't seem to have this flaw though. They only come with a USB-C cable and no charger in the box.

Also thanks for reminding me to put a big sticker on the charger with a warning!

So instead of a barrel plug, they ... made a barrel plug shaped like a USB-C connector?

Is there any EU body you can report them to?

Well, i had the same question and looking for this & the rules in general was... lets call it "a fun evening".

Those common charger EU rules pushing USB-C via the Radio Equipment Directive are actually only for the device, and even a specific list of types. But in briefing document [2] (made for RED change last year) mentions:

> a separate initiative on the eco-design for the external power supply (EPS) would harmonise the EPS-side receptacle and the communication protocol.

So "EPS" is what we are looking for and they use some eco laws to regulate them. [1] gives an overview and links COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2019/1782. And again, it only applies to a specific set of devices, with power tools not being listed. Doubt those fall under "Other toys, leisure and sports equipment"^^

Back to that EPS initiative... from my understanding, it [3] seems to be still "Planned for Third quarter 2023". Feedback period ended in May 2022, ofc.

The department seems to have vacant spot [4] for an expert, btw :)

[1] https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... [4] https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internaz...

Like those self-installed USB-chargers that are directly connected to your car battery. Can work sometimes, but you need robust devices.

Probably a side effect when USB-PD was introduced and people neglected the facts that there needs to be an elaborate handshake for anything other than 5V.

Previously we always needed to check non-USB chargers for their voltage and there were connectors and adapters for different sizes. But now you need to be more careful with USB as well.

Report them to trading standards.

> long

People don't like to read. Short & concise wins the day here.

As much as people hate on the EU, this is their sort of jam, EU should ban misuse of things like USB. Bam, problem solved. They even sorted out "we wer alwuz planin 2 use USB c, it wuz our plan all alung" Apple.

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