My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter
ounapuu.ee
ounapuu.ee
I sent Lidl a courteous and long mail about this and they didn't really care other than "please open a service ticket with your local Lidl", which I didn't care to do since what would they do?
How about urgent and short?
e.g. One day a kid will charge their toy over night with your 13v usb-c charger and they'll burn their house down.
“and this email notification demonstrates you are aware of the hazard which will be relevant in lawsuits.”
Although I wonder if it was your house to burn down whether you might feel a little differently about doing the right thing.
The answer is, you CC trading standards(Or your country's equivalent) as well.
Perhaps CCing trading standards is actually a good idea, and Im glad I raised a valid concern about the utility of emailing the supplier alone.
Here in the UK it's quite easy to get stuff fixed. A few years ago, a single complaint to trading standards by me got a can relabelled properly with its ingredients. Failing that, I know from prior experience that companies hate being embarrassed. They really value their image, and risking house fires for your consumers, it doesn't go down well.
What you posted came across as negative, and I'm afraid I have a fairly low tolerance for that. If I misread you, sorry.
As such, I don't think negative is always bad.
"The takeaway of this is that given the plug looks exactly like a standard USB-C phone charger's plug, it's easy for a novice user (say, a child whose phone charger's wire has been bit through by the family dog) to attempt to charge a device not rated for 13 V using this charger, which is quite likely to damage the device."
Newer revisions of the tool don't seem to have this flaw though. They only come with a USB-C cable and no charger in the box.
Also thanks for reminding me to put a big sticker on the charger with a warning!
Those common charger EU rules pushing USB-C via the Radio Equipment Directive are actually only for the device, and even a specific list of types. But in briefing document [2] (made for RED change last year) mentions:
> a separate initiative on the eco-design for the external power supply (EPS) would harmonise the EPS-side receptacle and the communication protocol.
So "EPS" is what we are looking for and they use some eco laws to regulate them. [1] gives an overview and links COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2019/1782. And again, it only applies to a specific set of devices, with power tools not being listed. Doubt those fall under "Other toys, leisure and sports equipment"^^
Back to that EPS initiative... from my understanding, it [3] seems to be still "Planned for Third quarter 2023". Feedback period ended in May 2022, ofc.
The department seems to have vacant spot [4] for an expert, btw :)
[1] https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... [4] https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internaz...
Probably a side effect when USB-PD was introduced and people neglected the facts that there needs to be an elaborate handshake for anything other than 5V.
Previously we always needed to check non-USB chargers for their voltage and there were connectors and adapters for different sizes. But now you need to be more careful with USB as well.
People don't like to read. Short & concise wins the day here.
For example, the handwarmers I'm using right now are USB-A at 12 volts, but have a dial to adjust the voltage up and down between 0 volts and 12 volts to adjust the temperature (I think it's actually PWM on the 12v power lines, but haven't actually checked).
5.5V or 6V is also common because it lets you use thin cheap wires which remove about a volt and still can fast charge phones (which tend to be picky and will drop back to 500mA charging if the voltage droops).
Big manufacturers also use non-5V over USB sometimes, but you need to send a special message to enable higher voltages, so it's safe to plug them into anything. Still troublesome if you're using a USB Y-splitter or multi-headeded cable.
> USB-powered handwarmers
This combination is just weird. So weird, that the only place I can think this then applies, is... Thailand.
But "cold" is relative. I've had temps as low as 14℃ (57F) in Chiang Rai, Pai and near Udon Thani. And while that may be "freezing" to people used to tropical climates, that's shorts-and-terrace-outdoor-yay temps where I'm from (North Western Europe).
I found it alienating to see people with woolen hats, mittens, thick jackets and scarves in Thailand, when for me the temps were T-Shirt and shorts grade.
edit: Though, reversed, another alienating sight was a kiosk with Thai Takeaway on a parking lot in Åre ("north-Sweden, south-lapland) under 2m snow and ice with outside temps of -18℃.
I wish I would have wrote the model down posterity, but at one point I worked a trading company and a number of the users had ISDN at home. There were two 'different' modems, and I say different because only the model number on them notified you of it.
One had a plug that output DC power. One had a plug that output AC power.
They were the same size wall wart. Same size barrel. But if you plugged the AC adapter in to the DC modem it would make a noise like you curled the modem up into a ball and let the magic smoke out.
The scenario you describe, where I'm looking for a power supply among a set of devices, to power another device, that is less likely to turn up a winner. But chances are non-zero enough that I do wander around looking for other options when a power supply is missing.
Really it should be a manufacture requirement that the barrel port on the device have a waterproof hard to destroy sticker, or case moulding that lists it's requirements. As the years have gone by I've seen way too many devices with a plug hole and no idea what it thirsts for, leading to deep searches on the net for the product. Also the wall warts themselves are commonly made by some other group, so once separated there is little to no visible pairing identification other than looking for output/input power on both devices.
A quick Amazon order, snip the wire off the old, splice it to the new and a little soldering/heatshrink later and we're back in business. Plug it in and... nothing. Turns out, the original power supply had it's polarity reversed. So then I opened the fridge and swapped the connections on the backside of the socket because it was less fuck-about than re-splicing the wire. Fortunately a few confused minutes of reversed polarity didn't damage anything (not that there's really anything to damage, it's a peltier plate and a fan)
Genuinely, why? The standards make things easier. Why go out of your way to not use them?
Doesn't that make it a heater, instead of doing nothing?
Oh, man, that reminds me of how I found out that MicroLogix PLCs[0] come in AC flavors and DC flavors. So the MicroLogix 1400 I had lying around here used an AC adapter, and you screwed the stripped wires into the holes that used screw retainers. Easy-peasy, just make sure the adapter's not plugged in in you wire it up. The boss orders me another MicroLogix 1400 for long-forgotten reasons, and to get it bootstrapped, I decided to use the adapter from the other 1400.
I already gave away the plot in the first sentence, and you can guess what happened next.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller
Probably the best connector we've got for things that need it, but I'm glad we have USB-PD power now
When you see a barrel connector all the following things are true:
1) no voltage can be inferred
2) no amperage can be inferred
3) Not even the polarity can be inferred
You must check the device and the wart for all that information.
The only thing that is truly standard is the polarity of power on a USB-A plug.
Cats.
Unless it's something you bought for yourself rather than the cat, in which case the cat goes for the most expensive thing first.
But in all seriousness, I think I underestimated just how much cats rely on smell at all times. I noticed yesterday that this plushy polyester bed is still strongly smelling like plastic mixed with some random pet store odors. This is likely not helping.
I will laundry it at 60 degrees Celsius as recommended, sprinkle some of his cat hair around it and then see if he finally accepts it. At the moment he still prefers sleep on (multiple) electronic devices and on the floor in the hallway between rooms (attacking anyone passing by).
I'd also be on the lookout for the electrical hum mentioned in TFA; that would drive me crazy, and I can't speak to how it would make any kitty wary
Also, and this may go without saying, but watch out for the fountain(s) being made out of materials which are hard to clean
Turns out that port is intended for connecting a receipt printer, and clearly not in any way a standard USB-C.
There is actually a micro usb port elsewhere on the device that can be used for debugging. Lesson learned the hard way.
It sound like the manufacturers just see USB-A as a convenient and cheap connector for delivering power.
By the way, are you Finnish? I've never seen an 'O with tilde' character before.
The first word I can think of is ngõ
It's a pretty rare character indeed.
Is it really any cheaper than a simple barrel connector that manufacturers have used forever for power?
There are much worse things than 7V that a bad adapter can output.
One of the scariest failure modes I’ve recently learned about is a supply that still provides 5V between both pins – but 225V and 230V to ground, respectively…
When I raise and lower the desk, the lamp lights up. That might not be the power port, it may be the "induction" power button on the lamp's chord getting interference from the desk motors. I'm living the tinderbox life.
not sure I follow you. can you clarify what you mean by both 225v and 230v to ground? You are measuring the potential between ground and USB output?
But yeah, usually those are illegal to be sold.
I remember showering in Costa Rica at a “hotel” and the shower head was one of those that heats the water (with an electric heater) and it was shocking me the whole time I used it. Probably shouldn’t have used it
Apparently those are common in central and South America.
And yes it's because of the metal case. It's not the actual mains you're connected to though, just some induction on the PSU shielding.
Cats instinctively love & trust moving water as stagnant water can accumulate bacteria & disease.
So a cat fountain sounds like a gimmick or novelty but it’s a great idea.
It’s cute and adorable (the fountain is a bit silly looking), and I have to assume it’s good for him.
And to guard against power outages, I got him a separate fountain with an open top, so in a pinch at least he had some standing water.
So the cats have their own cat towers and a water fountain. The first day with the fountain, the cats were so chill. I wonder if running-water sound soothes them.
From that time I tend to use the provided one, but I never noticed it provides a different voltage. Thanks for the warning
3rd party ones on the other hand....
Anker is well known, and Baseus is getting there. They are especially nice because they make GaN chargers, putting a lot of power in a tiny package.
It honestly kind of baffles me how crappy Apple's cables and chargers are when they simultaneously make one of the best USB-C to 3.5mm DACs on the market, and then sell it for $10.
I believe the Chinese government is keen to get rid of the crappy reputation Chinese products carry ("Chinesium"), but its gonna be a process.
I originally thought there was no way these work as advertised, but I saw a guy I know using one to charge his laptop, and he has the engineering knowledge to properly test it so I decided to go with his recommendation
But the charger was always giving 12 or even 20V (i don't remember exactly, I don't have access to this device now).
A real trap.
Latest USB PD supports up to 48V and up to 5A, resulting in 240W
That’s also a reason why not all fast chargers work well for all products – if the required voltage + amperage combination is not supported then the closest supported lower combination will be used instead.
That said, 7.5 volt is not a supported voltage in USB PD at least and there seems to be no handshake that guards it in this case
Consumers shouldn’t need to worry about the specific output voltage; the presence of a USB-A connector should indicate that it abides by the specification.
The hacker in me hates the idea of enforcing something like this, but poor interoperability is such a pain that it would be nice to have stronger guarantees.
Many applicances would break, or perhaps even catch fire.
If there were many different USB-A devices and people were used to checking the voltage output before plugging, that might not be needed, but since probably none of us check for a USB-A port to see if it outputs 7.5V, it better be mandatory to be certified.
Though, maybe it is, but still those cheap Chinese adapters slip away.
We have something like that here in Brazil. On cities which use 127V as the standard voltage (some cities use 220V), you can get 220V by using a pair of phases instead of a phase and the neutral, and it's common to find a few standard-looking sockets which are 220V instead of 127V. They might be colored red, they might have a yellow sticker saying "220V" next to it, or they might be completely unmarked. If your device is 127V only, or it has a manual 127V/220V switch which is on the 127V position, and you plug it into one of these 220V sockets, it will be damaged.
(The standard we use for consumer AC power plugs and sockets, NBR 14136, does not make a distinction between voltages; the same plugs and sockets are used for both 127V and 220V.)
In Australia we have only one voltage that will ever come out of a single phase socket, but the standards took the opposite approach with current ratings - the sockets are cleverly designed in terms of their current capacity so (assuming it’s been installed correctly) you can’t make mistakes without illegal and dangerous modifications. In the standard socket, you can have 10 amp, 15 amp or 20 amp, and they all have different sized pins. For the 15 amp plug and socket, the ground pin is larger, so a 15 amp plug cannot fit into a 10 amp socket. A 20 amp plug has all three pins larger, so it doesn’t fit in a 10 amp or 15 amp socket. But a 10 amp plug can still fit and sit snugly in a 15 or 20 amp socket, and a 15 amp can still fit into a 20 amp socket with no problems. It’s pretty clever.
For bigger stuff, or anything three-phase, you then have big industrial circular ones, which I think have a similar system to not let you plug a higher current device into a socket that can’t supply enough current. I believe there are also three phase plugs and sockets both with neutral and without neutral, and if the plug has a neutral pin it doesn’t fit into a socket that doesn’t supply neutral.
That sound dangerous. The larger fuse sized for the 20A socket will not protect the smaller conductors in the cable sized for the 10A plug, they can get overloaded.
The three-phase / industrial CEE plugs and sockets used in the EU are sized for 16A/32A/63A/125A. It's perfectly legal and safe to make a passive adapter that lets you plug a 32A appliance or distribution box into a 16A socket, you just can't load it higher than the 16A fuses on the socket. Going the other way around (16A plug into a 32A socket) you MUST have a circuit breaker in between to provide the required overload protection.
If I have a 3 Watt doohickey, I don't go looking around to find a 0.025A socket, I plug it in to my 15A wall socket and everything works great.
Appliances themselves with their own input fuses and captive cables are less risky, although some kind of internal wiring short could still get all melty.
It's true that sizing the plugs that way does prevent you from plugging a 20A appliance into a 10A extension cord, which makes sense.
The breaker is there to protect the wiring in the building, nothing more. It’s spec’d to the gauge of the cable in the wall typically.
So the ampacity of the connector (duplex and plug) is meant to reject certain combinations (plugging a 30amp appliance into a 15amp duplex/circuit). It's obviously very easy to get around that by just wiring things together wrong (18AWG wire on a 30Amp circuit), but by design, a 30amp appliance with the proper plug cannot be plugged into a 15amp outlet.
Of course, this is informed by the electrical code in my home country, so I understand that other places and people have different experiences, but electrical accidents have been on a steady downward trend since the 80's, so the NFPA NEC has to be doing at least some things right.
Over in my 230V corner of the EU, CEE 7/3 sockets are pretty much the only thing I'm aware of for new wiring, with the unearthed CEE 7/1 sockets still present in older installations. Both are rated for 16A, with either 10A/1.5mm² or 16A/2.5mm² branch circuits from the distribution board. It would be unheard of to wire those up with any higher ampacity at risk of overloading the sockets - although recent experience with e.g. EVs has shown that they're not actually suitable for sustained loads at 16A, given e.g. wear and tear on the sockets.
Unearthed appliances do commonly have CEE 7/16 plugs rated for 2.5A, particularly things like wall warts or USB chargers, which does fit into a CEE 7/3 socket.
I recall seeing CEE 7/16 (2.5A europlug) sockets, although those may have been imports from elsewhere in the EU. I suppose those would have the same issues if wired up to the same distribution circuits. But extension cables for those are rarer, the only ones I've ever seen are CEE 7/7 plug (16A) -> CEE 7/16 sockets (2.5A).
For residential/commercial loads over 16A / 3.2kW, it's all CEE / IEC 60309 connectors, and those are treated like distribution circuits with overload protection sized appropriately for the connectors/cables.
I realize I'm nitty but this is a technical-minded forum after all.
"amp" also seems to be more common to write than "A" for electricians. Remember that the SI standardization of unit abbreviations is actually a pretty modern thing, so lots of fields existed before unit abbreviations were standardized and continue to use existing practices.
Yes though, ampacity is the correct word (for my home country). "Current" is an instantaneous measurement of current flow. That they use the same unit is pretty convenient for planning circuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampacity#:~:text=Ampacity%20is....
Yeah, Brazilian NBR 14136 does that too. It has 10A and 20A variants, and the only difference is that 20A has slightly larger pins, so it won't fit into a 10A socket. (And the international standard it was based on, IEC 60906-1, has only a 16A variant with an intermediate pin size, so the 10A plug would fit into its socket and its plug would fit into the 20A socket.) Annoyingly, that's the only difference, making it quite hard to tell just by looking whether it's a 10A or 20A plug/socket; you have to try and see if it fits.
That would be going backwards, and losing all the safety features of the new NBR 14136 ("type N") standard; to make it worse, we already did use something like "type A" (with "universal" sockets which accepted both flat and round pins, and sometimes even grounded "type B" together with these two, it was a mess) for both 127V and 220V, so you'd still have (in older buildings) these "type A" plugs being used for 220V.
The math was a little off, but the quote still comes to mind
But I've actually have never seen a red one.
Overvoltage is now routine in places where there's lots of PV installed in homes and not enough load nearby.
If you live in such a place, you have a deep appreciation of varistors and should have either good insurance or a little bit of soldering skills... preferably both.
Every solar inverter / microinverter manufactured in the past two decades (if not older) must monitor the grid voltage+frequency and disconnect if it falls outside of a certain tolerance. If things go out of tolerance there is a defined period of time where it must recover or the inverter is required to trip out. There are also hard safety limits that cannot be exceeded whatsoever. I am not aware of any conditions that would result in overvoltage.
In CA as of (IIRC) 2021 these systems must be hooked up to some kind of online monitoring so the utility can temporarily command them to exceed tolerances. If the grid is going unstable due to load the last thing you want is everyone's PV system tripping off making the supply situation worse. So the utility can inform the system to exceed the normally tight tolerances by a larger deviation. They can also command PVs systems to shut off but there are strict limits on how often and how long they can do that and it must be driven by grid stability needs.
The problem is varistors blow out before the safety measures work. Perhaps due to wear or low quality, but this still happens.
Smart meters report voltage, the utilities would know if this was happening and given how much they hate rooftop solar they'd be yelling about it if they could.
Every once and a while an electrician wires up standard US outlets to 480v 3-phase instead of 208v 3-phase, so you end up with an outlet designed for 120v that puts out 277v.
Sometimes noone notices because the switching power supplies plugged into them are just fine with this.
Edit: I am not advising anyone to deliberately do stupid things, simply mentioning that from my experience the builtin margin is fairly large.
A voltage drop of 25% could also mean you have semi-broken wiring somewhere, which can cause fires or shock hazards on faulty appliances.
You're understanding is correct, if neutral is allowed to float it's voltage will depend on ratio of the load on the 2 phases.
It also creates a variety of hazardous conditions and opportunities to make spicy metal.
You can play with it here courtesy of Paul Falstad and Iain Sharp: https://tinyurl.com/yq4lukm6
For AC motors, the lower voltage might mean they do not have enough power to turn, so all the power they consume becomes heat in the motor windings (and since they're not turning, there's less cooling).
For electronic power supplies, they might either pull more current to maintain the same output (again leading to more heating), might output a lower voltage (and DC-DC converters which consume that voltage might in turn draw more current, again leading to more heating), or they might even misbehave and output an oscillating voltage; they might also detect the power dip and shut down, only to power up again moments later, repeatedly.
A device in an idle stand-by mode is probably the best case, since it's using little power from a supply sized for a much bigger load.
I disagree with the sibling comment that the only protection from voltage dips is a UPS or similar; a simpler protection is an undervoltage relay with a timer, to convert the voltage dip into a power outage (and also prevent the power from being restored too quickly).
Sure, if the manufacturer wants to increase the cost on the BOM for their PSUs, they can use additional components to survive dips, but who does that on disposable electronic equipment? Hell, even "expensive" TVs don't. I quote expensive since you can now get 65" 4K TVs cheaper than a mobile phone, but that's a tangent. So if you are wanting to protect your electronic equipment with another device readily available that is just plug an play ease of use with no knowledge of electronics, what do you suggest?
The point is that in electricity delivery, it is normal to have deviations in the voltage as acceptable. Most power supplies have tolerances that can handle these deviations. A dip is something outside of the deviations that most people don't consider as they are only focused on spikes and only use surge suppression devices. Since the only protection from dips is a more expensive battery solution, most people do not bother outside of computer related usages.
260V is in +/- 10% threshold and is possibly falls within "engineered in tolerance" range, but will probably shorten the life of many appliances if supplied constantly.
Paradoxically, it may be the lower voltages that are more dangerous, because it will result in a higher current draw from all the devices.
Mains voltage has a nontrivial allowed range (in fact in Europe they increased it slightly so that devices would work across countries with slightly different original standards) but this is well out of spec.
An RMS voltage of 230V corresponds with a peak voltage of ~325V so reading of 260V could theoretically happen.
But 170V... yikes!
It wasn't mandatory but this is one of the main reasons Underwriter's Laboratory was started. The market needed a certification to say "yes, this things does what it's says it does and in a safe manner".
My dad owned a retail store in the 1970s and he distinctly remember being told "Lots of retailers won't carry a brand/item unless it has the 'UL' sticker on it."
UL is technically a global standard, but mostly used in USA/Canada. That's only two countries which already have laws governing what can and cannot be put in a consumer device.
I'm not as familiar with the history of CE, so I don't know why CE decided to cover environmental standards. But my speculation is that it's because CE covers ~30 countries with a larger range of laws.
The device is specifying the output voltage, which isn't in spec for the connector, but it is (apparently) accurate.
[0]https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-c...
It's just some fraudulent manufactures that are using a paper-thin excuse to illegally apply a fake CE mark.
It is a self-certification mark though so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've just done a quick dive into my electronics. I have a Tonbux power strip where the C and E are definitely too close together.
Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now.
As per Wikipedia, quoting the European Commission, people displaying the CE logo with incorrect dimensions exist. This does not prove the legend.
> Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now.
Please stop spreading urban legends on the basis that other people believe in them.
But you have presented no proof of that. What has been shown so far is that:
• One Chinese web site presents the information as factual, i.e. a simple retelling of the legend.
• Equipment exists which have the wrong dimensions on the CE logo.
What you have not proven (and neither has anyone else) is that some manufacturer has actually used the faulty CE dimensions to try to claim that they weren’t trying to show a CE mark, but instead this mythical “China Export” mark. Note that for the legend to work, it has to be some sort of benefit for the manufacturer, namely that they must be able to get out of being accused of falsely displaying a CE mark by, when accused, instead claiming that the CE mark is not in fact a CE mark. But this must be claimed publically by the manufacturer. Surely someone should have some example of this happening by now?
https://www.ul.com/news/put-safety-menu-thanksgiving
I think that is still the case.
Some years ago, I saw a video, done by Consumer Reports, I think, that showed a fireman, in full heat gear, using a turkey fryer, and showing how incredibly easy it is to spill oil.
Every Thanksgiving, there are always quite a few turkey fryer accidents.
1) they overfill the pot, even though every frier I have ever purchased comes with a table of turkey weight to oil (not perfect obv but generally they are conservative, at worst you must add a little oil once the bird is in the frier). Sometimes this table is literally etched into the pot. Failure here will overflow the oil and send it into the burner causing a fire, once that fire reaches the inside of the pot .. yaknow, not great.
2) they don't sufficiently dry the bird or even worse put it in frozen. The previous causes potential spatter that could 'boil over' and cause fire. The later i've seen some videos of .. much less great.
Let's be clear, you can do exactly this stupid shit deep frying something on your stovestop, at least with a turkey frier you can be outside away from flammable things.
It's pretty easy to deep fry a turkey safely and in fact every year I probably fry between 10-15 birds (I love turkey). On thanksgiving I generally end up frying 5-7 birds for my family and some of the neighbors who either are to scared or just don't want to buy a setup, either way I'm happy to do it for them.
1) make sure your oil level is right according to the pots instruction.
2) make sure your bird is thawed and pat it dry inside and out
3) heat the oil on the burner, but move the pot off the burner before inserting the turkey, also remove the pot before removing the turkey.
4) watch your temperatures and keep the lid on.
It's all fraud. And at 40 amps, potentially quite dangerous.
Stuff like the post you are replying to is common "good luck with insurance" trope. Insurance protects you from stupidity, errors, and negligence. It doesn't protect you from fraud or intentional malice, but using an uncertified device is not fraud.
Note that after an accident related to personal stupidity or error, an insurance company could decide you are too risky to further insure, or that the cost for your insurance should increase dramatically. But they can't deny a claim.
All of this is of course a significant summary, but insurance won't (can't?) deny a claim linked to an uncertified electrical device in normal circumstances.
I don't think the CE mark protects consumers the way it could decades ago, with international imports taking a few seconds and free postage to boot.
https://donglec.com/blogs/journal/are-third-party-chargers-h...
It's a self-certification. You can decide how much that's actually worth for non-EU vendors.
Nintendo comes to mind; charging the Switch (the earlier models IIRC) with a third-party adapter was a lottery, and the losing prize was a fried console.
They've been guilty of this practice for as long as they've been making electronics - I think it was the NES or the SNES that used a standard barrel jack and voltage, but reversed the polarity, with no circuit to protect the console.
Also - using Ethernet ports/cables for serial console access is not even evil, it's just stupid. Granted the switches/routers that do this are not exactly SOHO equipment, but you need to let students in a lab near that, and it's just asking for trouble.
Is there actually a standard about that? IIRC, recently things have drifted towards "center positive" as customary, but most adapters and devices have the little diagram about how they're wired for a reason.
Always seemed dumb to me, since you'd want the "ground" side to make contact first when inserting.
The problem you're thinking of was caused by a Nyko third-party docking station with a faulty hardware implementation of USB-PD. While Nintendo's software implementation of USB-PD was flawed in some ways, it didn't cause this problem.
> I think it was the NES or the SNES that used a standard barrel jack and voltage, but reversed the polarity, with no circuit to protect the console
There is, sadly, no "standard" polarity for barrel power jacks. Center-positive and center-negative are both fairly common.
I stand corrected.
The dock however, still rejects non-Nintendo chargers. I have an MBP, a Thinkpad, an iPad, and a Switch - every device works with each other's (and third-party) chargers, except the Switch, when docked.
This comment, specifically about some of the technical details of the video out stuff points to at least some changes were done in the new generation: https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/171c3mj/comme...
Someone can correct me on this as well. I've noticed that my switch will charge properly and quickly on their provided charger and a few other usb-c chargers I have but not certain other ones where it charges much slower. My theory has been that not all usb-c chargers are compatible with all voltages and that perhaps the switch's 'preferred fast-charge voltage' is somewhat uncommon (i think it's 17v?). Can anyone confirm this is how these things work? I just assume there is a negotiation where the charger says 'I can supply these voltages, and perhaps at these max amps, and the device choses one or none of them depending on it's needs.
I have the OLED model, and the accompanying dock refuses every single non-Nintendo charger I've tried. It literally tells me so on the screen.
> My theory has been that not all usb-c chargers are compatible with all voltages [...].
Correct. Both devices present eachother with a list of supported modes, and negotiate the optimal one. If you try a fancy charger/powerbank with a screen, it will even present per-port current/voltage stats. Fun to observe the changing power draw on different devices.
Also if you plug another device to the same charger, it will trigger a re-negotiation, possibly end up in a different mode. LTT had a whole video on modding ancient consoles to use USB-PD, and the possible resulting issues.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1470228-how-to-put-usb-c-pow...
It seems like somehow we're used to the idea that this particular plug will only work with the device that came with it, but we assume that USB-A is USB-A. I know I do.
This does make me wonder about the USB adapter I got with my dash cam. The documentation says all over the place to pretty please with sugar on top use our adapter. I'll have to stick a meter on it. [Edit: 5.1v.]
As long as you are free to modify the hardware or purchase specific non-conforming hardware I see no reason why this would be painful for a hacker.
For pure consumer products (whatever that means) safety standards are quite reasonable. There are already legal requirements in the USA that plugs have certain shapes controlling orientation, grounding, and expected voltage, as well as building code so that people don’t trip over long power cables. Food safety means you can pick up something at the shop and have some faith it won’t kill you.
This reduces cognitive overhead and doesn’t require you to be an expert in every domain.
It also doesn’t stop you from hacking your own stuff (mostly — please don’t mix ammonia and bleach!) and easily provides you a bunch of dependable items on which you can build your hacks. So you can (briefly!) supply 100 amps of 240V AC over USB A at home if you want, you just can’t sell it. You can make yoghurt at home and store it on the counter in the sun if you want, no problem.
> The hacker in me hates the idea
If the hacker in you really hates this, then why insist on enforcing via means that restrict both vendor and user freedom (IP) instead of regulatory enforcement that exclusively targets vendors & leaves hackers free to hack?
If I develop a new connector, how do I get the regulator to start enforcing that everyone who uses it is following my standard?
What happens when I find a way to extend the specification in a safe, backwards compatible manner, but this conflicts with the standard as enforced by the regulator?
I’m not saying that these are insurmountable problems, but I feel like the regulator should focus on issues such as safety, and interoperability should be enforced by the company/consortium that develops the standard in the first place.
Long before RMS and other ideology-oriented types, people were adapting commercial tech to local purposes which the vendor didn’t intend and wouldn’t endorse.
I mean, sure you won't get better performance or power out of an old device but it's at least safe which is good enough for me, and for bonus points it's likely to work at some reduced level.
At least adhere to the spec to such a level that it won't destroy other hardware.
I think your initial instinct is right.
Why? I'm not sure what being a hacker has to do with it, but this sort of thing would benefit everybody and harm nobody except for the negligent.
Isn't there already some law somewhere against things that are so obviously not what a consumer would expect?
This may violate the USB spec and burn out phones, but it's not necessarily undeserving of the CE mark.
Even without that, one would hope that part of the compliance tests includes actual compliance with whatever port specification is being used - I don't think any part of the USB spec allows for 7.5V, but I might be wrong. You just wouldn't expect, say, a portable battery to have a standard Schuko plug but output 330V while bearing the CE mark.
[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
> The requirements set out in points 2 and 3 of this Part shall apply to the following categories or classes of radio equipment:
> 1.1. handheld mobile phones;
> 1.2. tablets;
> 1.3. digital cameras;
> 1.4. headphones;
> 1.5. headsets;
> 1.6. handheld videogame consoles;
> 1.7. portable speakers;
> 1.8. e-readers;
> 1.9. keyboards;
> 1.10. mice;
> 1.11. portable navigation systems;
> 1.12. earbuds;
> 1.13. laptops.
Unless you can convince your local standards authority that the cat water fountain you bought is actually a weird looking portable speaker, I don't think this law applies her.
Unfortunate, really, because USB port really shouldn't use non-standard voltages. I'm sure there's some consumer protection law you could use in court to make the manufacturer pay for damage if they damaged your devices (there are a bunch of "a product should work like you would expect" types of laws sprinkled across consumer protection laws) but I don't think this violates CE standards.
Even if the connector itself were patented?
I was selling cables and adapters on ebay at the time and we had a package with both types. Easier to sell people both versions than deal with "oops i needed the other one."
(I may well have mis-named the parties; apologies if so)
That said, what an awful USB port to come across. A little reading wouldn't have gone amiss though. My natural reaction would have been to assume it was an output, not an input.
And how would a loose cable cause a voltage spike?
Zener diodes can temporarily protect an overvoltage too but you will need something to take all that current that is now going through it, making it pretty hot and likely to fry something
You can pair something like this with a positive temperature coefficient thermistor to act as a fuse (as it gets hotter the resistance goes up).
These circuits are tricky to tune right, take up space and can add significant cost to a product. So with a drive in consumer products to lower cost smaller things you may not see them everywhere.
> how would a loose cable cause a voltage spike?
From the top of my flu-y head, connecting and disconnecting an inductive load (like a motor) can cause spikes. However in USB land, that's pretty rare.
dc-dc step up devices use an oscillator to charge and discharge an inductor to achieve a certain voltage increase. They _could_ be noisy when starting up, or have transient load.
Maybe in conjunction with a self-reset polyfuse - buys just enough time to trip the fuse.
> From the top of my flu-y head, connecting and disconnecting an inductive load (like a motor) can cause spikes. However in USB land, that's pretty rare.
Exactly - and it's not all that rare. A USB fan, a spinning disk drive, etc. In the right condition even a capacitor can be a problem (difficult to simulate, but it can become a short-term battery cell).
Thanks for the PSA, I'll be sure to get that adapter off my kitchen counter right away!
EDIT: I may be wrong. Apparently this is now allowed by the Quick Charge spec. See comments below.
1. just accept the 7.5V and charge happily.
2. trip overvoltage protection and refuse the charger.
That doesn't make this okay, it just means it isn't catastrophic.
Note that I said consumer device. If I plugged one of my microcontroller dev kits into this thing, the magic smoke would be released pretty quickly.
Not just USB-C... even early generation QuickCharge could (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge).
Also, I'd love to see ones with 65w charging so I can charge my laptop and still have an outlet to use!
There are a few no-name brands with 65w, but I don’t trust them.
Just note, they are much larger than normal outlets and can be a squeeze to fit in a normal box.
Simple small screen or just led lights.
Maybe even a "kill-a-watt" for usb power cube/banks.
- A pass-thru USB power meter. Measures volts, amps, wattage (simple arithmetic), and watt-hours
- a USB load device. You can configure the voltage and amps to draw. Used in conjunction with the above, you can see just how much a USB supply can supply
- a watch cell powered cable tester. Not essential for your use-case, but great for working out whether a cable is at fault or not.
None of this directly measures quality, but usually you can infer that from amps, and from negotiation.
That leads to the problem child which is China and its lacking morals. Chinese companies will just slap the CE on anything, because the EU say that must and Europeans seems to enjoy seeing it. Sometimes, they will slap on a different CE marking, meaning "China Export". You can tell the difference by tracing the C to a full circle, if that hits the E exactly, its CE as in "conformité européenne", if it doesn't, it's China Export.
If you're a fly by night USB charger manufacturer, you just invent a new brand for next month, so you won't get the fines or be banned.
Never did I thank that would be some kind of "this is a great thing" approval stamp.
However, it never occurred to me that a USB-A charging brick would be able to give 7.5V, or even 9V or 12V as others have commented. That might completely fry some devices...
To be on the safe side, one would actually have to check the voltage. Both the output voltage and whether these are really 0V and 5V to ground. The output frequency spectrum should also be checked.
The charger emits 5V unless the device supports higher voltage and negotiates it.
So another self-made problem then.
Stop trying to 'improve' life by more & more tech-based BS.
Reason 1 supporting this: the article's title is "My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter". What sticks out most here is the word spicy, and when used in conjunction with electricity, it usually means more electricity than needed. Very good title.
Reason 2 supporting this: The heading is "It turns out that you can’t trust any USB type A power adapter to be within spec". Nothing about cat fountains.
Reason 3 supporting this: the article is tagged with the "ramblings" tag, setting us up that the article will be opinionated, and not strictly just about the central point of it.
>Stop trying to 'improve' life by more & more tech-based BS.
Hard disagree. There's no clear healthy cutoff with regards to technology, and the frame of reference also changes over time (and the course of history). Our life is supported by a ton of technology, many pieces of it being thought about as both "too much" and "not good enough".
Usually I'd agree with you here, people use tech in places where it shouldn't be used quite often, but in this case I do not mind it at all. If this helps avoid future visits to the vet (and so far it has worked), then it's OK in my book.
And yes, you do have to clean it regularly and change the filters, we're already doing that.