Comment by pavel_lishin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pavel_lishin | Hacker News Reader

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> make things easier for working parents.

During the (now semi-aborted) back-to-office push at my employer, several of us pointed out that a 9-5 in the office is impossible for those of us with children and a commute.

- 8:00am - earliest free drop-off time at school.

- 8:12 or 8:20 - next bus or train to the city. I can probably make that from the school, if I fully sprint for at least half that journey. (Taking a car is riskier; traffic around the school or the station, or bad parking, means that driving is wildly more variable.)

- 9:45 - earliest possible time I can roll into the office.

- 5:00 - I slam my laptop shut, having already put on my coat, and sprint to the subway and/or bike share to head to the train station.

- 5:16 - the earliest possible train I can make, assuming that all of Midtown stops for me.

- 6:31 - the earliest possible arrival back home, 31 minutes past aftercare's closing time.

The only way this would be doable is by hiring childcare for both mornings and afternoons, every day of the week, to the tune of ~$50 extra per day, minimum. That's on top of the cost of the commute.

When I was a kid, I would get dropped off early for “before school programs at school” and stay at “after school programs” at school and get picked up late because both of my parents worked full time. Do they not have those anymore (which sound like less money than “hiring childcare”)?

Many times the slots are all taken. Then there's the cost. These things cost money. Add commute spending and many people can't really afford both commute for them and morning and afternoon clubs for their kids.

They do. But they both cost money. My child is already enrolled in the after-school program, from 2:30 until 6:00.

How much do those cost these days compared to say, day care programs (per hour)?

I'm not sure. We pay a yearly rate, and it's significantly cheaper than it would be to pay per hour.

In any case, we already pay for the aftercare regardless of whether we're commuting to work that day or not; that's a cost that's already budgeted for.

In this case it just makes sense to have RTO at reduced hours. Make the standard work day something like 10-4.

I never understood why people throw the baby out with the bathwater on things like this.

I think in our case it was driven by the company's new owners not being based in our area, and not understanding that our commute and living situations are vastly different from theirs.

Or understanding but deliberately making advantage of the difference.

well, sure if you live so far away that you spend 3 hours a day commuting... I would just work on the train and arrive late /leave early.

Sure, unless the mandated RTO plan explicitly states that you should be in the office from 9-5.

If I had to regularly spend 3 hours a day commuting, I would quit and find a job that doesn't do that shit to me.

how did you do that before covid when working from home wasn't yet common?

i understand the problem for a single parent. in most countries they just can't work 8 hours a day. the time where kids are away for me for example is barely 8 hours by the clock. that is without commuting time and lunch break. once the kids come home someone needs to start preparing dinner, followed by housework.

with two parents however, one parent could work early, and the other could work late so that there is one parent around in the morning and one in the evening.

the trouble now is of course that this becomes a coordination problem with two different employers who have different expectations for the work schedule

> how did you do that before covid when working from home wasn't yet common?

Everything was different than the scenario I described in my earlier comment, including my employer. (And to be clear, my current employer dropped the 9-5 requirement when they realized they wouldn't have any engineers left if they tried to enforce it.)

The commute was significantly shorter, and we relied on the subway - not trains - which came more regularly.

There was no requirement for a 9-5, and so I could either do both drop-off and pick-up, or we could divide the responsibilities between my spouse and I.

Furthermore, we could work from home as necessary.

> with two parents however, one parent could work early, and the other could work late so that there is one parent around in the morning and one in the evening. the trouble now is of course that this becomes a coordination problem with two different employers who have different expectations for the work schedule

Exactly. And I would have choice words for an employer who suggested that the problem they're plopping in my lap for no reason should suddenly become my spouse's concern.

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