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Comment by _lvbh | Hacker News Reader

Cardiff, United Kingdom

Pros: It’s in the “West”

Cons: It’s cold, expensive, and all the kids are vaping and drinking. There was a stabbing on the street on my first week here just 10 minutes away from where I live. Even though GDP per capital is higher (but actually unexpectedly low), purchasing power is much lower.

Context: I come from Malaysia and have always idolized the west as some sort of paradise. Even for lower pay, I’d much rather go back to Malaysia in a few years. Tips to those that were in the same situation as I was (got some money through luck and considered coming to the UK for university): You’ll probably be happier staying where education is cheap, days are warm, and skies are clear.

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I went to college in Wales a few miles north of you (up in Pontypridd). It doesn't sound like much has changed. Except the vapes; they hadn't been invented back then.

However I would recommend that you at least try a few other parts of the UK before writing it off. Wales is one of the rainiest parts of the country for a start!

The other major cities in the UK all have their own vibes - and if you don't like the urban centres there are some idyllic spots in the country.

Don't get me wrong, I don't live in the UK any more and I don't plan to again, but it would be a shame to characterise the country entirely around a city that happens not to suit you.

Yes, I wouldn’t say the UK is bad or anything since I haven’t really explored. I guess I’m just salty I spent so much for nothing.

Well, I hope you get the chance to explore a bit before you make your decision on whether to stay. The British climate (at least) is hard to defend though.

This is super insightful. It’s a shame your investment isn’t paying off. Cardiff is probably representative of much of UK. But without some prior connection to it, I don’t think it represents the best of the west that the UK has to offer.

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. My advice is move to London. It's expensive but very multi-curtural and if you embrace it is such a fantastic city. I can't help you with the weather though.

does "West" give you some status or something? what's the context

As a child, I was always told by everyone around me, family, friends, teachers that going to the US or UK should be my dream. Those that manage to go either via scholarship or wealth are described as geniuses and assumed to be smarter than the rest of us.

I ended up earning enough to either live 6-8 years without working in Malaysia during high school but I decided to blow it all for getting a degree in the UK (which costs more for international students as well).

Yes, status but probably also just a lot of conditioning and propaganda.

I actually first came across you on the Internet for the cool stuff you did reverse engineering the Obsidian sync engine! (On that note, I remember the CEO's response was praised for being measured/reasonable, but if I'm not wrong they subsequently broke it.)

> As a child, I was always told by everyone around me, family, friends, teachers that going to the US or UK should be my dream. Those that manage to go either via scholarship or wealth are described as geniuses and assumed to be smarter than the rest of us.

On this particular point, similar phenomenon here in Singapore and I studied overseas and came to a similar realization as you. But one irony is it's not something you can credibly say/know without actually having done it.

Now that you're there, my advice is to make the most of it and aggressively filter for people with similar interests as you and accept that you probably won't assimilate in with the mainstream and that's OK!

I’m actually surprised that there would be such a phenomenon in Singapore. Many of my classmates in Malaysia were from Singapore and wanted to escape from the strict education system so I’ve always assumed that education is better there (in some sense, I understand it’s not for everyone). I actually tried applying to some SG universities but was rejected (I have terrible grades)

Re: the Obsidian Sync stuff

The CEO categorized it as a “security vulnerability” during our discussion on GitHub. I’m still using it by patching the JavaScript manually but it’s too much work for general use by others.

> The CEO categorized it as a “security vulnerability” during our discussion on GitHub.

Have you tried making a HN post or otherwise bring attention to this? My impression is he got a bunch of undeserved clout, especially in light of how things turned out subsequently.

> Many of my classmates in Malaysia were from Singapore and wanted to escape from the strict education system so I’ve always assumed that education is better there (in some sense, I understand it’s not for everyone).

Oh that's new to me, I didn't know that's a trend (Singaporeans going to Malaysia to escape the education system).

> I actually tried applying to some SG universities but was rejected (I have terrible grades)

Sorry to hear that. Something I have learned much later in life is that whereas schooling rewards individuals for being "all-rounded" and naturally caps the returns for being good at something (at most you can get 100 or 4.0 or wtv), in the real world, the returns for being really good at something (as you seem to be) are really uncapped.

> Have you tried making a HN post or otherwise bring attention to this? My impression is he got a bunch of undeserved clout, especially in light of how things turned out subsequently.

I don’t really have the energy to argue over it. I was also advised by my lecturers to stay away from reverse engineering / anything that can be used against me legally now that I’m in the UK which has quite murky laws.

I’m not one to hold a grudge so him getting clout for his original response doesn’t concern me. If I knew he was on HN, I wouldn’t have posted it.

That makes a lot of sense. All the best, am sure you’ll go on to do great stuff!

My understanding is that those international degrees in the UK, at 100k+ GBP a pop, are mostly for the well-off elites of "third world" countries - successful businesspeople, corrupt politicians etc. They can spend such amounts on their children without blinking an eye. For regular people however, the return on the money may not worth it.

It doesn’t cost as much as you think. It’s only around 25k GBP. (Which is still hellishly expensive)

And no, I am not part of the elite. I earned the tuition fee myself with no help from my parents via security bounties and part time work.

Most of the actual elites I knew (children of real estate developers, CEOs, etc that happened to be in the same city I grew up in) went to Switzerland or USA rather than the UK. In my experience, the UK infrastructure barely surpasses that of Malaysia and falls way behind those of China and Singapore; not the most attractive

Last I checked, it was around 25k GBP per year. I've mostly checked the most prestigous universities, I guess others don't charge nearly as much, as you don't get the worldwide prestige assiociated with the diploma.

Ah I got confused by the wording “100k a pop”

Yes, you’re correct

well, hold on guys. let's not go too orthodox with all the education and moving abroad thing. People move abroad to the "west" for a variety of legit reasons which give them perspective. Many companies are in the UK and London still is, and probably always will be a powerhouse. Same for US, Germany, etc. I don't know that one can cross out the benefit of having studied abroad along so many talented people that easily. Can you get that at home? Depends on a lot of things, specially where is home for you.

The difference between the "West" and the rest isn't as large as it used to be. There are good companies in UK, US, Germany etc. to be sure, but they aren't paying that much compared to costs of living (esp. when you account for real estate). US Silicon Valley companies are probably an exception, because exorbitant salaries make moving there worth it even in spite of ridiculous costs of living. But, is Germany or UK that much better than China or Malasya? I don't know enough about Asia to say one way or the other, but they (UK/Germany) certainly aren't neccessarily better than Poland (a country I know), from a programmer's perspective.

I am almost exactly the same but not the "or wealth" part; wasting tons of someone else's money is the most important part. But still though having your own money to fund foreign education by yourself sounds already like living the dream.

Yeah, no crime in Malaysia for sure!

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