Ask HN: Where do you live? What's good or bad about it? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Where do you live? What's good or bad about it?

106 pointsmichaelteter304 comments

With each Who's Hiring, we see opportunities from many different cities. But having not lived in some of the cities, it's really difficult to know if we would be happy relocating.

What prompted me to post this "survey" is an interesting opportunity onsite in NYC. But from an outsider's perspective, especially browsing apartments online, it doesn't seem too attractive. I'm sure there's a lot to like, but it would be nice to hear the good and bad from people who live there.

So, please give your city and its pros and cons.

TIA!

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Malaysia, close to Kuala Lumpur.

Pros: Good food, strong English proficiency. Good diversity. Easy to get into the top 1% of tech. Very easy to set up a non-VC backed company, and you'll make sweet margins.

Lots of talent, roughly equivalent to Singapore. They have NUS and ivy league grads, but we have the population funnel. You can have all the smart conversations you have on HN all day and all night with someone out here. Plenty of tech events in KL, probably comparable to European capitals.

Cons: Middle income trap - retiring with a job is extremely difficult; most either end up doing a business, working in gov, or staying as a corporate slave long enough to get a VP position. High sin tax (alcohol, tobacco). Work discrimination is fully legal. Affirmative action is also a heated topic. Uptick in racism as we go through some political shifts, but it's still decent IMO. Very little VC funding here. VCs prefer Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, but VC-backed companies often set up engineering/R&D offices in Malaysia.

Mixed: There's good tolerance of LGBT+ here. Violence is uncommon. However, it's tolerance, not full acceptance. Don't force your views on others and you'll be fine. Everyone has very different religious and political views from their neighbors.

Stats say crime rate is comparable to Canada, but I think it's mostly the poorer areas. KL is mostly gentrified now; most of the people who would be delivering drugs are now delivering McDonald's.

Hey, I'm in Singapore. I visited KL some years back and I quite enjoyed the city and what it had to offer.

Malaysia is so much more relaxed. The moment you cross the border into Johor Bahru, you can almost feel the release valve.

> However, it's tolerance, not full acceptance. Don't force your views on others

I mean that sounds perfect. What more would anyone want. Trying to force personal views on others is wrong and unnecessary aggressive passive-violent behaviour.

Also tolerance only exists in the state of disagreement, so if you force everyone to agree with your view then there is nothing to tolerate, because you are in agreement. The pinnacle of harmonious living is accepting people for believing and having different views and letting them express those whilst everyone is still tolerant of each other. Anything less is discriminatory and anything more is dictatorial.

Tolerance in these terms are like "I would never let my kid to be gay, but others, fine whatever". And that still comes in a range from "get thrown stones at for holding hands with another dude" to "allowed to give a goodbye kiss to your partner in public". Everyone's limits are obviously different, and one can perceive either of those as "trying to force personal views on others". Reading those norms isn't easy until you get accustomed to the locals and have bar chats with them.

You described intolerance, I was talking about tolerance.

As a foreigner who lived 4 years in KL, I totally agree. In my opinion Malaysia has one of the best cost-of-living vs quality-of-live balances in the world. Startups are growing in number and supported through MDEC etc.

The major cons are bureaucracy (banking, government) and a seemingly growing radicalism of Muslims.

Cardiff, United Kingdom

Pros: It’s in the “West”

Cons: It’s cold, expensive, and all the kids are vaping and drinking. There was a stabbing on the street on my first week here just 10 minutes away from where I live. Even though GDP per capital is higher (but actually unexpectedly low), purchasing power is much lower.

Context: I come from Malaysia and have always idolized the west as some sort of paradise. Even for lower pay, I’d much rather go back to Malaysia in a few years. Tips to those that were in the same situation as I was (got some money through luck and considered coming to the UK for university): You’ll probably be happier staying where education is cheap, days are warm, and skies are clear.

does "West" give you some status or something? what's the context

As a child, I was always told by everyone around me, family, friends, teachers that going to the US or UK should be my dream. Those that manage to go either via scholarship or wealth are described as geniuses and assumed to be smarter than the rest of us.

I ended up earning enough to either live 6-8 years without working in Malaysia during high school but I decided to blow it all for getting a degree in the UK (which costs more for international students as well).

Yes, status but probably also just a lot of conditioning and propaganda.

I actually first came across you on the Internet for the cool stuff you did reverse engineering the Obsidian sync engine! (On that note, I remember the CEO's response was praised for being measured/reasonable, but if I'm not wrong they subsequently broke it.)

> As a child, I was always told by everyone around me, family, friends, teachers that going to the US or UK should be my dream. Those that manage to go either via scholarship or wealth are described as geniuses and assumed to be smarter than the rest of us.

On this particular point, similar phenomenon here in Singapore and I studied overseas and came to a similar realization as you. But one irony is it's not something you can credibly say/know without actually having done it.

Now that you're there, my advice is to make the most of it and aggressively filter for people with similar interests as you and accept that you probably won't assimilate in with the mainstream and that's OK!

I’m actually surprised that there would be such a phenomenon in Singapore. Many of my classmates in Malaysia were from Singapore and wanted to escape from the strict education system so I’ve always assumed that education is better there (in some sense, I understand it’s not for everyone). I actually tried applying to some SG universities but was rejected (I have terrible grades)

Re: the Obsidian Sync stuff

The CEO categorized it as a “security vulnerability” during our discussion on GitHub. I’m still using it by patching the JavaScript manually but it’s too much work for general use by others.

> The CEO categorized it as a “security vulnerability” during our discussion on GitHub.

Have you tried making a HN post or otherwise bring attention to this? My impression is he got a bunch of undeserved clout, especially in light of how things turned out subsequently.

> Many of my classmates in Malaysia were from Singapore and wanted to escape from the strict education system so I’ve always assumed that education is better there (in some sense, I understand it’s not for everyone).

Oh that's new to me, I didn't know that's a trend (Singaporeans going to Malaysia to escape the education system).

> I actually tried applying to some SG universities but was rejected (I have terrible grades)

Sorry to hear that. Something I have learned much later in life is that whereas schooling rewards individuals for being "all-rounded" and naturally caps the returns for being good at something (at most you can get 100 or 4.0 or wtv), in the real world, the returns for being really good at something (as you seem to be) are really uncapped.

> Have you tried making a HN post or otherwise bring attention to this? My impression is he got a bunch of undeserved clout, especially in light of how things turned out subsequently.

I don’t really have the energy to argue over it. I was also advised by my lecturers to stay away from reverse engineering / anything that can be used against me legally now that I’m in the UK which has quite murky laws.

I’m not one to hold a grudge so him getting clout for his original response doesn’t concern me. If I knew he was on HN, I wouldn’t have posted it.

That makes a lot of sense. All the best, am sure you’ll go on to do great stuff!

My understanding is that those international degrees in the UK, at 100k+ GBP a pop, are mostly for the well-off elites of "third world" countries - successful businesspeople, corrupt politicians etc. They can spend such amounts on their children without blinking an eye. For regular people however, the return on the money may not worth it.

It doesn’t cost as much as you think. It’s only around 25k GBP. (Which is still hellishly expensive)

And no, I am not part of the elite. I earned the tuition fee myself with no help from my parents via security bounties and part time work.

Most of the actual elites I knew (children of real estate developers, CEOs, etc that happened to be in the same city I grew up in) went to Switzerland or USA rather than the UK. In my experience, the UK infrastructure barely surpasses that of Malaysia and falls way behind those of China and Singapore; not the most attractive

Last I checked, it was around 25k GBP per year. I've mostly checked the most prestigous universities, I guess others don't charge nearly as much, as you don't get the worldwide prestige assiociated with the diploma.

Ah I got confused by the wording “100k a pop”

Yes, you’re correct

well, hold on guys. let's not go too orthodox with all the education and moving abroad thing. People move abroad to the "west" for a variety of legit reasons which give them perspective. Many companies are in the UK and London still is, and probably always will be a powerhouse. Same for US, Germany, etc. I don't know that one can cross out the benefit of having studied abroad along so many talented people that easily. Can you get that at home? Depends on a lot of things, specially where is home for you.

The difference between the "West" and the rest isn't as large as it used to be. There are good companies in UK, US, Germany etc. to be sure, but they aren't paying that much compared to costs of living (esp. when you account for real estate). US Silicon Valley companies are probably an exception, because exorbitant salaries make moving there worth it even in spite of ridiculous costs of living. But, is Germany or UK that much better than China or Malasya? I don't know enough about Asia to say one way or the other, but they (UK/Germany) certainly aren't neccessarily better than Poland (a country I know), from a programmer's perspective.

I am almost exactly the same but not the "or wealth" part; wasting tons of someone else's money is the most important part. But still though having your own money to fund foreign education by yourself sounds already like living the dream.

I went to college in Wales a few miles north of you (up in Pontypridd). It doesn't sound like much has changed. Except the vapes; they hadn't been invented back then.

However I would recommend that you at least try a few other parts of the UK before writing it off. Wales is one of the rainiest parts of the country for a start!

The other major cities in the UK all have their own vibes - and if you don't like the urban centres there are some idyllic spots in the country.

Don't get me wrong, I don't live in the UK any more and I don't plan to again, but it would be a shame to characterise the country entirely around a city that happens not to suit you.

Yes, I wouldn’t say the UK is bad or anything since I haven’t really explored. I guess I’m just salty I spent so much for nothing.

Well, I hope you get the chance to explore a bit before you make your decision on whether to stay. The British climate (at least) is hard to defend though.

Yeah, no crime in Malaysia for sure!

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. My advice is move to London. It's expensive but very multi-curtural and if you embrace it is such a fantastic city. I can't help you with the weather though.

This is super insightful. It’s a shame your investment isn’t paying off. Cardiff is probably representative of much of UK. But without some prior connection to it, I don’t think it represents the best of the west that the UK has to offer.

NYC!

Pros: Limitless number of things to do, people to meet, communities to be a part of. And Broadway (for me). I also enjoy not needing a car.

Cons: Yes it's expensive. Apartments are a choice between: good location, good size, good price (choose two). More shit seems to be going down in the subway (sometimes the literal kind).

Also, there's a kind of art to apartment hunting in NYC. Once you master it, finding an apartment isn't that bad. I've always gotten a pretty good deal and always had a choice between a few apartments. Staying away from trendier neighborhoods is my first rule (way overpriced.. and this is what most ppl see first before digging deeper). I guess the second rule is know thyself - knowing what annoyances you can tolerate will help you find the types of housing that'll conceivably work for you.

The last sentence is extremely true and good advice.

In general, "the market" is extremely efficient: all "bona fide good" (i.e. you, your mother, your 5 closest friends, your manager, your college roommate would unanimously agree that it's "good") living situations are really expensive.

To find situations that are affordable, you have to trade off on a couple of those bona fides (dishwasher, W/D access, square footage, daytime/nighttime noise, distance from trendy neighborhoods... ambient incidence rate of violent crime).

All that being said, if I were new to the city and under 30, I wouldn't discount bunking up with randos in LES/East Village/Nolita (trendier neighborhoods) for the first year. You're not going to know which neighborhood is your neighborhood until you've seen what's around, and you might as well enjoy the first year. Will you be financially responsible? Eventually. For now, have a good time.

The last part to the NYC apartment hunt: be ready to execute. Sometimes being the first party to engage on the spot is what it takes.

Reminds me of the chapter on Optimal Stopping in the book Algorithms To Live By.

Last time I looked I had a check ready to sign and fill with the proper info.

Totally. I get bank statements, paychecks and living history ready when I go into apartment hunting mode. I transfer around $4-5K to my checking account to be ready to get a bank check in a 24-hr turnaround period.

Optimal Stopping alone makes Algorithms to Live By worth the read

Agreed. Great book. Glad you enjoyed it.

> Also, there's a kind of art to apartment hunting in NYC. Once you master it, finding an apartment isn't that bad.

Please elaborate beyond avoiding trendier neighborhoods.

> Staying away from trendier neighborhoods is my first rule (way overpriced.. and this is what most ppl see first before digging deeper)

Where have you looked?

Some places I've looked in the past: Crown Heights & Prospect Heights, Flatbush-Ditmars, Prospect-Leffert, Astoria, Sunnyside, Financial District, Ridgewood, Bushwick, "East Williamsburg", LIC, Harlem, Hell's Kitchen, Lower East side (sometimes, though it's also getting some of the most overpriced apartments in the city for what you get).

Interesting. And where are the trendier neighborhoods you'd avoid?

Vancouver

Pros: No need to have a car (pretty great transit system), I can't leave the house without running into someone I know as at least a friend, great coffee, super easy access to international travel and nature. People who are at the peak of competitive athletics, particularly outdoor athletics, also tend to gravitate here, and that's a unique circle to be adjacent to.

Cons: Outrageously, comically expensive, for pretty much everything, especially a place to live, and there's fuck all for jobs atm. I'd also argue that the city lacks any kind of particular cultural expression except bland richness and being filled with fit attractive people. We have concentrations of some ethnic groups that bring some interesting visual architectural flavor in specific areas, but the city stands in for arbitrary big American cities in plenty of movies. Maybe that's it, film people is our thing.

I have no plans to leave; though I'm sure I could find some footing elsewhere, it would take a rather unique opportunity to throw away my sense of community where I live. I still enjoy traveling internationally to see what other places are like.

Also con: the weather in the winter is miserable for 4-5 months straight. It's turned me into a sun worshipper and as soon as I can get out I will.

It's pretty sunny here right now. I'll admit that it takes a little while to get used to, but I find myself missing the rain nearing the end of summer. It's nice to chill for a bit.

Everyone has their own conception of miserable though, and for me the rain barely registers since I'm from any other part of Canada; no, sunny and extremely cold winters are not superior

Singapore.

Pros: Some beautiful parks and nature spots. Very walkable (and cyclable, with a couple of omnipresent bike share systems and an extensive running / cycle path network). English is the defacto language spoken by everybody. Virtually no crime or homelessness. Infrastructure is top notch. The government are competent, pro-active, and non-corrupt. Condos all have great facilities – multiple swimming pools, barbecue pits, and a gym are the norm, tennis courts and steam rooms are common. Diverse culture that’s a combination of Malay, Chinese, and Western, with major holidays celebrated throughout the year. Amazing, cheap food from many different cultures. Loads of fantastic travel destinations on the doorstep. Excellent education and support for families. Very low taxes.

Double-edged sword: A humid 30°C year-round with no winter – some people love it, some people hate it. Draconian drug laws – people are executed for bringing drugs into the country, even weed, but Singapore is clearly avoiding a lot of drug deaths and related crime and social issues.

Cons: High cost of living. Long-term visas can be tricky; permanent residence and citizenship are getting very difficult these days. A lot of economic inequality, with an extremely low-paid immigrant workforce. The government is socially conservative but pulled a little further that way by the pioneer generation, so illiberal laws when it comes to freedom of expression, gay rights, etc. It’s a small place, so if you are always looking for new things to do, you’ll have to travel.

I am in Singapore too — I saw you're doing an early stage startup here and wonder how you find the scene/ecosystem here?

My sense is: - Engineers, while cheaper than the US, are still fairly expensive and are typically quite risk-averse - The investors-to-builders ratio is very high; while it might be good for fundraising, I wonder if having a critical mass of builders is no less important

Curious to hear your thoughts!

It’s pretty easy to meet other founders and investors here. If you’re a founder then it’s a pretty good place to be as far as the entrepreneurial ecosystem is concerned. Antler started here and is very active in the community.

In terms of hiring talent, I’ve only tried hiring software and platform engineers here, without much luck. Despite the cost of living, the salaries aren’t too high compared with, say, Europe. But it’s a small market and all the megacorps like Facebook / Google / Apple have their regional headquarters here so you are competing with them. I think for developers the market is pretty bimodal – the good ones go to the megacorps and are super expensive, and everybody else works for local firms and are affordable but not great.

I tried putting a few job ads on MyCareersFuture for an average salary for Singapore, and only got a handful of responses, most of whom were entirely unqualified. Our circumstances changed, so I didn’t keep trying to hire here, but I get the impression MyCareersFuture is only really used to prove to MOM that you tried to hire a local so you can justify a visa to bring somebody into the country. I think most proper hiring is done via word of mouth or LinkedIn here.

I think a lot of people here hire developer teams in Vietnam and nearby areas. Which is certainly cheaper and opens up much bigger markets, but also introduces a language barrier. Also, if you aren’t Singaporean / PR, then your visa will probably require you to spend a significant amount of money and hire locals here sooner or later.

If you’re keen on living in the region as a founder, then I’d say Singapore is the best place to be by far. But you probably aren’t going to build a dev team here.

Thank you for the detailed reply!

> I tried putting a few job ads on MyCareersFuture for an average salary for Singapore, and only got a handful of responses, most of whom were entirely unqualified. Our circumstances changed, so I didn’t keep trying to hire here, but I get the impression MyCareersFuture is only really used to prove to MOM that you tried to hire a local so you can justify a visa to bring somebody into the country. I think most proper hiring is done via word of mouth or LinkedIn here. > I think a lot of people here hire developer teams in Vietnam and nearby areas. Which is certainly cheaper and opens up much bigger markets, but also introduces a language barrier.

Yes I think you're right about that. Am I right to understand that you ended up hiring elsewhere as a result? How was your experience in that regard? Yes, I know couple of founders who hire developer teams in Vietnam specifically. What they said is, for the equivalent of a fresh grad's salary (assuming you're getting the good end of that bimodal distribution), you can get a senior engineer in Vietnam. Oh, and I know someone who has dev team in India but I think he's originally from India and was able to tap into local connections to pull this off.

> If you’re keen on living in the region as a founder, then I’d say Singapore is the best place to be by far. But you probably aren’t going to build a dev team here.

So your advice would be to live in Singapore, but build a dev team somewhere else in Southeast Asia?

> It’s pretty easy to meet other founders and investors here. If you’re a founder then it’s a pretty good place to be as far as the entrepreneurial ecosystem is concerned. Antler started here and is very active in the community.

Any specific events you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance!

> Am I right to understand that you ended up hiring elsewhere as a result?

We ended up pausing hiring and I left that business a few months back.

> So your advice would be to live in Singapore, but build a dev team somewhere else in Southeast Asia?

Generally speaking, yes, with the caveat that how much funding you have and your visa may stack the deck in the other direction.

> Any specific events you'd recommend?

I don’t have any specific recurring events in mind, things mostly happen ad hoc, but just start talking to people and see what one-off events are happening. There’s normally things happening at the Google offices, the incubators normally run events, etc.

I love visiting Singapore and I have friends who live there and love it. I wish I'd tried harder to get a job there when I was younger for a few years. At the moment we have young children who have just started school and we're quite settled in our town in the UK, but I do still daydream about moving to Singapore.

One of the things I love about where I live in the UK is the beautiful English landscapes. We're in the SE of England, commutable to London and we're surrounded by forests and countryside. We cycle a lot into those forests.

A question if you don't mind, do you have children and how would you rate their quality of life in Singapore? I know there are a lot of parks but it does also have a sense of very built up and so kids grown up quite urbanised right?

I don’t have kids, but my niece and nephew visited a while back and loved it. It’s definitely urban. There’s often playgrounds and kids’ swimming pools in condos, parks are mostly urban with playgrounds, there’s loads of places for them to ride bikes safely, skate, etc. If anything, people complain about it being a little too sanitised. Unless you are loaded, you’ll be living in a small apartment rather than a house with a garden, but the condo facilities and parks make up for it.

It’s Singapore, so it’ small and you won’t get vast forests, but there’s enough nature spots to keep kids happy. You can always go cycling around Pulau Ubin at the weekend to soak up the jungle atmosphere or hike along the Southern Ridges or up Bukit Timah, and I often see smaller kids wandering around the mangrove boardwalks with their parents trying to spot lizards and otters.

It is expensive if you have kids though. You’ll pay a lot in school fees, and if public transport isn’t enough for you, cars are very expensive as well. Having said that, the schools and public transport are both top notch.

Budapest, Hungary

Pros: cost of living is relatively low especially for things like utilities etc. Very strong social programs to support young families (6 months maternity leave paid at 100% followed by 18 months of benefits paid at up to twice the minimum wage, plus up to 30 months of unpaid leave for one parent, access to preferential rate loans, grants etc. without means testing for young families, etc.). Excellent and cheap public transport. Beautiful city/architecture.

Cons: purchasing power is relatively low, inflation is outpacing salaries and interest on savings, extremely populist government with little hope of change, high levels of corruption, less progressive attitudes towards feminism, gender identity, sexuality, racial diversity. Older folks often don’t speak English.

I lived there for a few years. Some of the happiest memories of my life.

NYC (Brooklyn, mainly) for north of 10 years.

Pros: Amazing food, music, "culture" in general. In general, if you enjoy some cultural niche, it is probably most at bloom in the U.S. inside the doors of some random address within the NYC boroughs. Compared to many cities, it's relatively easy to make new friends. In most neighborhoods, you can be born, go to school, play, eat every meal, go grocery shopping, get married, get divorced, spin out, find yourself, etc. in a walkable or at worst bikable distance.

Cons: wickedly expensive. You can trade-off some things to make it more affordable, but you have to get creative. It helps to know a local. If you want consistent access to real nature, you realistically need a car. Owning a car in NYC (usually) sucks.

I sum it up as a three-legged stool. It's a great place to have few-to-no responsibilities, be youthful (at heart, at least), and very gainfully employed. If you're short one of those three things, it becomes a shaky proposition. I've wanted to leave at one point or another for at least half the time I've been here, I'll probably still be here in 10 years.

Pro-tip: City Island and Pelham Bay Park are very nice in summer, and get you somewhat close to nature with just a subway and bus ride.

Similarly, LIRR/MNRR run to quite a few nice hiking or otherwise outdoorsy areas. They're obviously not as flexible as a car, but I've had consistently good experiences taking MNRR to e.g. the Bear Mountain area for day hikes.

Lived in BK for 15 years. This summary rings true. The thing that lit my leaving fuse was the noise. Once it started getting to me my clock was ticking. Also the moving. I moved 12 times in my 15 years and each time it ate up 6+ weeks and thousands of dollars. Few moves were voluntary. After a while I simply could not even any longer

> You can trade-off some things to make it more affordable, but you have to get creative. It helps to know a local.

What do you mean?

I said more in a cousin comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38526658

Basically, trade-offs.

On knowing a local, locals will know which neighborhoods align with your lifestyle. They'll also be able to share helpful details about which brokers to work with / avoid, and how to time the markets.

Basically, any apartment you see on zillow/streeteasy (they're the same company) that's been listed for more than 1 week in a desirable neighborhood is either not "bona fide good" or incredibly overpriced, which could (incorrectly) lead you to believe that no good rental options exist in NYC.

The reality is that all the bona fide goods are snapped up within 48 hours. The best ones are practically snapped up before they're even listed. Unless you've lived in NYC for a while and tried to play the housing game, this reality isn't super discoverable.

> The best ones are practically snapped up before they're even listed.

How is that possible?

The landlord's broker will show prospective tenants before the apartment's listed (and before the prior tenant has moved out, if they get the prior tenant's permission).

If a prospective tenant is seriously interested, you can have all the paperwork submitted before the apartment appears on Zillow. We got our last apartment this way. I think the apartment was vacant for less than 7 days.

It tilts the market in favor of people who are willing + able to pay a broker fee. Personally, I'd rather there be no brokers (it'd make the market more fair) but the game is what it is.

Las Vegas

Pros: Cheap relative to other US cities (especially California). Close to lots of beautiful nature (red rock, charleston, valley of fire, mojave, zion, death valley, joshua tree, eastern sierra). Airport has cheap direct flights to lots of places for the size of the city. Friends/family come to visit a lot. Good food if you can find it hidden away in the strip malls.

Cons: Arguably not a city, just the absolute worst suburban sprawl you can imagine. Cookie cutter homes, huge stroads everywhere. Need a car to go anywhere, walking or biking sucks. The summer, obviously. The population is very transient (at least in my experience, but most of my friends are climbers/other outdoors people which might bias things)

Lived there three years during COVID after rejecting LA (where I grew up) because of ridiculous cost of living, crime, traffic, etc. Vegas has problems but overall not a bad place to live.

Pros: Cheap compared to other cities. No state income tax. Good airport and air connections. Lots of deals for locals if you bother to figure out the rules (so can be cheap to eat out). Plenty of good food.

Cons: Blazing hot or freezing cold desert climate. Terrible public transportation, too hot or cold (for me) to bicycle, too spread out (and hot/cold) to walk anywhere. Lots of weirdos, drunks, pathological gamblers, scammers. Maybe some of the worst and most dangerous driving I've ever witnessed outside of SE Asia.

I'm into magic, so the biggest pro in Vegas for me would be that it's the magic capital of the world.

Technically, it’s actually Colon, MI!

I found this out recently and couldn’t believe it was true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon,_Michigan

Arguably Vegas is the true capital

Haha I had no idea what I was going to find in that link but yeah, you're right, that is technically the magic capital :)

Another con: The wind.

Stockholm, Sweden

Pros: A clean city, an excellent public transport network, almost everyone speaks English and the language is not too hard to learn (albeit hard to get opportunities to use it). The social support system is in good shape. It's a tech friendly city with some big names headquartered here (Spotify, Klarna, King). The archipelago is absolutely stunning in the summer and those long warm summer days are amazing. Companies here are required by law to offer 5 weeks vacation and to let you take 4 consecutive weeks of that in the summer if you choose.

Cons: taxation is high and the cost of living is also fairly high. Housing is expensive (although much cheaper than London for example). Reputedly it can be hard to break into Swedish social life - I haven't found that myself, but it's a common observation. There's some concern about crime stats, and a populist (rather wobbly) coalition government that's increasingly unfriendly to immigration. Oh yeah, snow and cold in winter with long dark nights. Sunset is around 15:45 at the winter solstice.

Neutral: Stockholm is a relatively small city and the population of Sweden is also quite low.

Having lived in London for most of my adult life I never thought I would leave - but having done so, I find I don't want to go back. Stockholm is nicer. While taxation is high, IT work pays well and I feel like I get a lot for those taxes. I live in an apartment that I could never dream of owning in London. It's civilised, friendly, has excellent coffee shops, and if it weren't for the abysmal salty licorice candy I'd find it hard to find fault from my personal perspective!

Were you able to buy your apartment or are you renting? Buying in London is extremely expensive

Buying in London is phenomenally expensive. We bought an apartment in Stockholm - given that it is spacious (4 bedrooms), has a view of woods and the lake, and is a few minutes away from a subway terminus it's inconceivable that I could ever have owned somewhere comparable in London.

I think the same money in London might have covered a 1 or 2 bedroom in one of the less desirable areas with no view to speak of.

Renting is a bit of a PITA here but those on IT salaries won't have much trouble.

SF for 10 years

In this reporter's humble opinion, it's wild how dissonant the narrative about this city is with the reality on the ground. If you ask our relatives who watch too much cable news, they think we live in doom loop hellscape on the verge of total collapse. Yet when we go out and walk around different parts of the city… it's mostly nice. There's plenty of people out and about; it feels like things have recovered from pandemic-era decline.

Of course there are problem areas that do look like the Bell Riots might pop off at any moment, and I really do hope we find a way to address those problems. But the truth is, that makes up a small part of the city, and even in the sketchiest parts of SOMA, the homeless population et al will for the most part leave you alone; it's not particularly unsafe.

Pros: Lots to do. You can walk most places you'd want to go. Weather is always great. If you're in tech, it's the center of the universe, and the place you're most likely to maximize your career options. Plenty of meetups/events for every niche where you can meet people, network, etc.

Cons: Expensive, but that's why the salaries are higher. I'm told that if you're single, the dating scene is a nightmare. Not exactly an easy place for families either unless you've already won the startup lottery. I don't really see this discussed, and maybe it's a little uncomfortable to admit, but there is definitely a degree of having to be able to "make it", and not everyone can.

Thessaloniki, Greece: Great food, great nightlife, all the beaches you could want within a 30 min drive, ski resorts in the winter an hour away, lots of Greece to explore within a few hours' drive. The city itself is vibrant, the waterfront spans the entire city and is very nice to walk on, the city as a whole feels extremely safe.

Cons: It's in Greece, so drivers are idiots, there's government corruption, can't really make a living wage, rents are so high that I'm not sure how anyone can afford to live here, and it's so hot in the summer that you really do want to be at the beaches for those three months.

I was just there this past summer. I spent one particular drive glued to the window as there seemed to be an endless number of half-built and/or abandoned buildings. Did I misjudge what I was seeing or is that a real concern/symptom for you?

Hmm, not especially, where did you notice this? There are various abandoned buildings, but mostly in areas where people don't really want to live in, I haven't seen this being a significant issue, I don't think.

Whe I was in Greece I also saw a lot of buildings that seemed incomplete, often with apparently a floor missing. I was told it was something to do with tax and by not "completing" the building some tax was avoided.

Hmm, how do you mean a floor missing? Was the top floor half-built or something? I've never seen this that I can recall.

They had steel poles sticking up from the concrete. Essentially they looked like another floor was supposed to be added.

Ahh, I see. I feel like I've seen this in otherwise half-finished buildings, but not really in buildings that otherwise look complete, with people living in them, etc. Maybe I'm so used to it that I just don't notice it, though. I'll keep an eye out and report back!

I was driving to/from the coastal peninsula region southeast of the city starting at the airport

Oh hmm, were those buildings unused? I think that happens when they run out of money, mostly.

I visited a few months ago, and it was a very nice city! I normally spend time in Athens or on the islands, so I decided it was time to see the big city. Walking through the city was a great experience. Tons of historic spots to encounter, and I had the best bougatsa I have ever had. The drive from Thessaloniki to Delphi and then to Athens was also a fun trip.

Πολύ ωραία.

We do indeed have the best bougatsa! It's our specialty, I'm glad you like it.

are there sidewalks in the city? are the roads in good condition?

There are sidewalks everywhere, but sometimes cars may park on some, which means accessibility is not great for people with mobility issues. The roads are in moderately good condition, a few potholes here and there but not much worse than, say, London.

It also depends on what you're used to, though.

Ukraine.

We used to be just a heaven with a lowest big-mac index and a lowest internet prices and a lowest internet censourship on the planet. But our desire to live a good live and do not think about the future has lead us to the war.

Poland in 90s was exactly like Ukraine in terms of economic, but now Poland is in top-20 and Ukraine is in the ass. But I love it with whole my heart and will continue to live here despite any changes in the government. Who knows, maybe Russian government will be better for us than BlackRock-approved fagship and US' spyship like FATCO. Europe must be either being morally destroyed via too much comfort or being annoyed with our high as Moon corruption levels - one of these two statement must explains why West's help is so absent at the moment of 12/5.

> Europe must be either being morally destroyed via too much comfort

I think it's this. Honestly (as a Pole) I was very surprised by how much support Ukraine has received from Europe and US. During the first weeks of war, as I was expecting Ukraine to be completely abandoned, or receive token help (German helmets etc.).

Luckily, the geopolitical math worked in Ukraine's favor, and US decided to weigh in. Now, it might change at any moment, as US has no loyalty to its allies and is capable of abandoning them with extreme ease (see: Vietnam, Afghanistan), based on changing voters preferences and current politics in Washington.

> US has no loyalty to its allies

Ukraine is not a NATO member.

Not all US Allies are NATO members. Neither Afghanistan nor South Vietnam were in NATO. Australia or Japan are not in NATO either.

US was involved in Ukraine since at least 2014. There were gradually pulling Ukraine into their sphere of influence, which was one of the reasons Russia decided to invade.

Ukraine is not a U.S. ally. Period. So what does all this information have to do with that fact?

The U.S. has committed $100b. Should we also send our sons to die? Or what would constitute sufficient help? World War 3?

I'm an armchair urbanist who follows all the channels and forums, including yours. In 2022 I took a year off to travel the world to figure out where to move. My top list ended up being Paris, Lisbon, Miami and Praia, Cabo Verde. Weird list for someone who's into urbanism right? Only Paris and Lisbon fit the bill. And why isn't Amsterdam and others on it?

Thing is as much as I love good urban design, there's more to life than that. Eg, Amsterdam has terrible weather and tbh I find Dutch culture and lifestyle monotonic and boring. Lisbon is diverse and great but salaries too low. Paris is diverse and amazing but too cold and salaries too low. Cabo Verde you need a good remote job to live. Miami has mostly terrible urban planning but is diverse, fun, gives access to good USD high paying jobs and has nuggets of gold which if you chose your neighborhoods, activities and lifestyle wisely can be much, much more livable than it looks. So I ended up in Miami.

I live car-free in Little Havana, walking distance to both Brickell and Ocho. Plenty of restaurants, supermarkets, pharmacies and every imaginable service within walking distance. I ride my electric bike to South Beach, Little Haiti etc in ~20 minutes. (Wynwood and Overtown in like five ten lol) (that's faster than driving, esp in case of traffic or even just if you include parking) I can take the TriRail and Brightline to Ft Lauderdale and beyond. I can even ride the Amtrak all the way up the East Coast. Not living in Kendall or Hialeah, and not having to drive everywhere, I'm simply not as affected by the bad aspects of Miami's terrible urban planning as most people fuming in traffic on I-95 on the daily are.

Don't get me wrong, Miami gets a solid F in so many ways when it comes to urbanism, so I don't want to plug it too hard. But yeah def not just doable but outright enjoyable if you make the right choices.

Ah another fellow Miami resident. Moved here in 2018 and for the most part I don't regret it.

I agree with most of your sentiment, Miami (really all of Florida) has awful urban design up there with Texas and other "Modern" metropolis in the US and i95 is a bane on this earth. However if you are Latin there really isn't another place with as much variety and cultural presence like South Florida. I have met Colombians, Argentinians, Venezuelans, Cubans, and Nicaraguan all with prominent communities doted across the city and that isn't even including all the Caribbean ones like Jamaica, Puerto Rico, DR, Haiti, and the Bahamas.

I love the beaches and had a more pleasant time in the Hollywood and Hallandale areas that in LA / SF throughout the year. The food scene is amazing and there are plenty of places for entertainment like concerts, sports, theater, and even drag brunches. And look I get that it's overrated but Disney is really impressive but for adults without kids i highly recommend Universal Studios which IMO blew Disney out of the water with both Harry Potter and a more enjoyable selection of rides in general.

My biggest complaints are that a lot of people I meet are "Short-term" transplants and very few people consider the area an option for residency which is a shame when trying to make friends especially now since I am pretty much committed. I also very much dislike how flat and uninteresting the landscapes are especially when driving up to Orlando where the most interesting landmark is a bridge or cows on the side; I miss seeing mountains or rolling hills at the very least. Also despite having a very lively culture scene in general the museums leave a lot to be desired; there are a few hidden gems like the Dali Museum in Tampa (Largest collection of his works outside of Europe) and the Vizcaya (Great Gatsby-like massive mansion built by one of the richest men in the US during the 20s). Also local / state politics could put a lot of people off, especially considering the strong presence of the MAGA crowd.

Bangalore.

Pros: Weather is as good as it comes. Quick and easy access to one of the most beautiful places on the earth - The Western Ghats; among other places. Decent residential infra - depending upon what income bracket you fall in. Cost very reasonable. Excellent salary if you are in IT product development (sometimes even better than UK/EU). Cosmopolitan crowd. Excellent and varied food options. For alcohol lovers - it is essentially becoming a pub city. English just works. A lot of work that you do yourself in other places you may hire people to do at very low cost (yes, it's a low income and low living cost city and country). Cheap and well connected public transport (well buses really). And, well, it's home.

Cons: Traffic (for WFO you "must" live close to office unless it's metro to metro). Corruption all around. Rent spiked absurdly in last 2 years. Kinda inadequate metro rail network (and corrupt officials and politicians make sure it grows at like few kilometres/5 years). It's becoming a pub city. Development of the city is haywire/all over. Future of the city looks really bleak.

Is my intuition correct that non startup big tech is setting up shop in other cities ? Pune & Hyd in particular.

Bangalore is such a waste of a good city. If they'd scaled up public transportation when they needed to, a lot of the city's problems wouldnt have existed.

My experience is that other than a few nice neighborhoods, Bangalore feels a little too slummy for a metro city.

They're trying to. But that shift will not happen. It's easier to hire people in Bangalore. If you go work elsewhere, you'll lose out on this weather and the other tech cities really suck. Chennai is crying under floods right now and is hot and humid AF all the time. Hyderabad is only a little better and salaries are much lower than Bangalore. Pune used to have good weather but well, it's not as good as Bangalore, but the food is great in Pune.

No. The industry is here to stay. For better or for worse.

> If you go work elsewhere, you'll lose out on this weather

And salary. People often forget Bangalore salaries. That is one thing techies stick to Bangalore other than weather. Compared to BLR other tech cities in India are not really close. Esp. a place like Chennai. Tell a Chennai HR your Bangalore salary and it feels they fainted on phone or they just saw a ghost.

> other tech cities really suck

Not true. Problems that come with natural calamities is not a city specific problem here.

Tech is still Bangalore in India but it is not going to be this way for long especially seeing how the city has been shitting on itself forever. I am a resident and that is how it is sadly.

> Is my intuition correct that non startup big tech is setting up shop in other cities

Yes, but not a lot really. It might change very rapidly though.

> Bangalore is such a waste of a good city

True

> If they'd scaled up

Yes..

> other than a few nice neighborhoods, Bangalore feels a little too slummy for a metro city

Not true

Mumbai

Pros: Its home , Safest city in India , A true metropolitan city in India with a very liberal crowd , Great and affordable public transport

Cons: Not a tech city. All the tech jobs have gone to other cities in India and I will need to move if I want a higher paying job.

Overcrowded - Whole of India feels overcrowded but Mumbai is on a whole other level you can never be truly alone in this city and the public transport while being one of the cheapest in the world means to go to your office you need to hang by the doors of trains just because there is no place else to stand.

Weather- Not much to say other than its crap its very hot most of the year. Rains bring floods every year and train closures which stop this city.

Mumbai currently is ongoing an astonishing amount of infrastructure upgrades from upgrading its public transport to building roads to solve traffic bottlenecks but the new age jobs are fast leaving the city and the city is no longer the city of dreams it once was

You forgot the biggest cons. Cost of Real estate in Mumbai.

interesting, as a non-Indian who asked a lot of Indians about various aspects of India, I've never heard this come up in conversation. Assuming you're implying that it's costly, would you say it's costly in comparison to standard cost of living in India? or are talking like foreigners buying up land/buildings to the point where prices are at HCOL NYC/SF levels?

"would you say it's costly in comparison to standard cost of living in India"

Yes. Especially in Mumbai where population density is crazy and real estate is premium. Even a 1000 sqft apartment may cost a Million USD. Sort of like NY/HongKong real estate prices. Many Prime locations have properties priced at $1000/sq ft.

holy crap...i have a home in one of the higher COL areas in the US and it's only $600/sq ft. I know there's probably a lot of politics and corruption involved but honestly, I'm more impressed and excited for the future of the country (India) if things are going that well over there.

Zürich, Switzerland

Pros: Safe, Extremely good public transport(probably the best in the world), has 4 seasons, close to rest of Europe by air and train, Alps close by, English is spoken by the locals, decent night life, lots of job opportunity, plenty of small boutiques. Also have 10Gbit/s connection for 50CHF/month.

Cons: Very hard to rent a flat, forget about buying, very expensive, the Zürich dialect is extremely hard to understand and learn

https://www.zuerich.com/en/visit/practical-information/zueri...

I spent a couple weeks in Switzerland and I came away completely understanding why it's hard to immigrate there: it's a genuinely delightful place to live with an astounding quality of life and climate. I got the sense that Swiss people were really aware of how nice it was and were very protective of it. The COL as a resident vs a tourist is also pretty wild.

Bangkok, Thailand (US citizen).

Pros: Friendly people. Cheap housing and low cost of living, great food, good public transportation, world-class shopping and dining. Low crime if you aren't into drugs or antagonizing people. Close to beaches and national parks (jungles). Easy to visit all of SE Asia. Relatively wealthy for the region (though not Singapore-level wealthy or clean).

Cons: Dirty, crowded, terrible traffic. Sidewalks challenging for walking in some areas. Difficult to learn the language, impossible to actually integrate (always a farang -- foreigner -- no matter how long you live here).

I would choose Singapore if I didn't mind paying crazy money to live there. I would choose Osaka if I could get a long-term visa for Japan (and I may do that eventually). I would maybe choose HCMC/Saigon over Bangkok except the motorbikes make me crazy in Vietnam.

Do you want a big city? You mention Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh, Singapore.

But if you like Vietnam and can have a smaller city, and dislike motorcycles, try Hoi An. It is beautiful, far fewer motorbikes especially on the outskirts (you can cycle on a bike!), and close to Da Nang if you want a semi-large city (a million people.)

I like Da Nang and Hoi An for a short holiday, but it's not big enough for my tastes. I do like Vietnam, but I like Thailand a little bit more. Thanks.

Buenos Aires City, Argentina.

Pros: amazing walkable (currently) cheap city with basically free public transport in international standards (subway at USD 0.08). Top restaurantes and cocktails scene that I think it is better than NYC. A ~250 m2 apartment in a classic neighbourhood such as Recoleta is around USD 500k. Buenos Aires never sleeps. Good Internet infrastructure with fiber optics. Very social. Things you wouldn't find in other cities which is infinite walk in [1] and [2]. Amazing icecream. Top entrepreneur city, companies are formally radicated outside Argentina. Good weather.

Cons: insecurity (don't pose as a tourist and be careful of using your mobile phone or other devices in public places). Bureacracy at its limits. Corruption in every level. No beach.

It is important to highlight that Argentina is huge and other places are amazing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenida_del_Libertador_(Buenos...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenida_Figueroa_Alcorta

How do folks live with hyperinflation? Do salaries change monthly?

In tech, salaries are updated and/or "de-facto dollarized. Think that inflation in Argentina is omnipresent and not something new. In short, there are competitive salaries in tech, mainly for hign tech companies. Also, there are many people (nomads or expats) from other countries working remotely and living like "queens and/or kings".

BTW, we are not currently in the hyperinflation stage yet. We have very high inflation. Currently, between 200% - 300% annually.

I imagine crypto is a de facto part of most people’s daily lives?

In not-tech, unions negotiate monthly increases of salaries. It's more complicated, so you may get a 7% one month and a 13% the next month. You can try to research how much will be the increase and how much taxes will cut, but it's easier to imagine the ATM will give you a random number. (Usually the increase rate is lower than the inflation.)

The inflation is not high enough to rush to buy thing the first day of the month, but the idea is to finish the month with AR$0 in the bank. No savings in pesos. Buy some extra stuff, like canned food, cloth soap, update the computer or a home appliance and if possible buy US$100 dollar bills (the new model, with a big face).

Chicago

Pros: Summers on the lake, on the river, in endless parks, street festivals, rooftops, and courtyards make you wonder why you would ever want to live somewhere else.

Cons: Winters inevitably remind you of the answer to the above question.

Add crime to the list of cons unless you live in the suburbs.

Have you spent much time in Chicago? I've lived here in Lincoln Park and the loop (downtown) and haven't had any issues with crime, unless you count people smoking on the CTA train. Obviously it's not perfect, but conservative media's portrayal of Chicago as a crime-ridden city doesn't match my experience at all.

Yes I have.

> "conservative media's portrayal of Chicago as a crime-ridden city"

Maybe check police crime reports [1] of your city before going after the conservative media. There's gun related violence every week in Chicago and often there are multiple homicides on a single weekend. I understand it's a big city, but it's still a big problem. Lincoln Park is indeed nice and safe and parts of the loop are safe cause they are very touristy with heavy police presence. But there are many neighborhoods that are not that lucky. Also, the public school system in the city has major problems. In one year when I lived there there were 21 kids from the public school system around the city who got murdered in gang related shootings.

[1] https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_PDFsam_C...

* I just picked the city wide report for the last week. 7 murders. last year same period 14 murders. 2023 numbers seem better than 2022 but still. For comparison, my city of about 110K people has 1-2 murders on average per year.

> But there are many neighborhoods that are not that lucky

I think this is probably the most important point. Much of the crime is concentrated in the city's far west and far south sides, where I generally don't go. These stats are old, but the map is roughly correct and shows the disparity I'm talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#/media/File:2...

The effect is that most of the city is safe, but people on the far south side are impacted by crime. Not to defend the situation—I of course wish that all of Chicago was safe and want to see our city make progress on that. Just trying to provide nuance.

I love Chicago. One of my favorite cities in the entire US.

... in the summer. After about the end of September, until about the middle of April, you can keep it. I just can't do those winters. I spent a big chunk of winter in, aaah, 2014, 2015 (one or the other) in Naperville just west of Chicago and it was brutal.[1] :-(

[1]: But still not as bad as the Twin Cities, Minnesota area. Edina, MN is not a place you want to be at in the winter, IMO.

Edina= “every day I need attention”, if I recall from growing up near there.

I disagree though. MN is colder but less windy so you get those crisp calm, blue sky winter days in Jan-Feb that make the winter more survivable. But you gotta be ok with the cold.

That all said, I’m now in central Indiana and prefer the milder climate (than both those places!).

What's so bad about winters? You don't drive in chicago unless you want to, so just the walks? Can't you hunker down and get everything delivered to reduce outdoor time? I assume building heating is not an issue.

flat city on a big lake = lots of lake effect snow and wind. they don't call it "the windy city" for nothin...

public transit isn't bad but also isn't great and can be rough at times. also necessitates walking in said bad weather.

> Can't you hunker down and get everything delivered to reduce outdoor time?

COVIDs over bro. what's the point of living in a city if you're hunkered? move to a far flung burb and become a hermit.

> move to a far flung burb and become a hermit.

Hard to get a variety of delivery options there or great internet! :)

My favorite part of chicago is all the outdoor park space. It's mostly useless to me in the winter.

Honestly, I wish Chicago winters were _colder_. My big problem with the winter isn’t the cold, it’s the wet & grey.

If it were colder there would be more sun and snow instead of grey and slush.

Also, pros: world-class architecture, fun music scene, great museums and of course The Art Institute, top universities and everything that comes with that, great restaurants from every cuisine under the sun, very immigrant-friendly city, lovely tree-lined streets with block parties, I could go on and on. Oh, and living is affordable and people are Midwest Nice.

Cons: it's the great flatness - you have to drive for hours to see hills. Tech industry is ok but very b2b and fintech focused and not a lot of consumer or entertainment stuff. Also as a very liberal city it's a favorite target of culture warrior types.

Tie: winter. Yeah, it gets cold and snowy. But also, it's "just weather". It's the same every year and people deal with it pretty easily.

> world-class architecture

I've only visited Chicago once. It was nice, but I'd never thought architecture would be a selling point. Do you have examples of where I should look, the next time I'm there?

River boat architecture tour is commonly called the best tourist attraction in the city.

As a life long Chicagoan I really think you're underselling how bad the winter is. Combined with the flatness it means that most people just don't spend any time at all outside december-april. I think this is why Chicago has such a strong drinking culture, there's just not much else to do in the winter, certainly not 5 months worth of stuff.

As a former Chicagoan, I love Chicago. If you visit r/chicago, there's a lot of love for Chicago among current and former Chicagoans.

Seattle, WA

Pros: Diverse areas of distinct culture/cuisine/architecture, with much history built into the foundations of the city. Each neighborhood has its own identity so it doesn't always feel like a huge metropolis. The sports teams are good enough to get people's hopes up, but not good enough to actually win anything recently. If you make good money, it's a wonderful city. If you don't...

Cons: Expensive city. Not every apartment is $2k+/month but more and more of them are. When tech expands, it pushes out locals and prices out many from living good/comfortable lives. When tech contracts, it affects local businesses, especially downtown or in other areas built to support tech and tech workers. Either way, it's not as cool as it used to be to say you work in tech within some circles.

It's a mixed bag and I certainly wouldn't argue if someone said it wasn't for them, but for me, it's the best place in the world I could be. I'm close to family, friends, and great career opportunities (plus I like the rain, and the incredible summers no one talks about)

My dad lived in Seattle in the late 60s/early 70s, back then same problems, just instead of tech it was mostly Boeing (who he worked for before the big "will the last person to leave seattle turn out the lights" bust).

> Either way, it's not as cool as it used to be to say you work in tech within some circles.

It was actually probably never cool, even in the 90s. Almost Live's 1992 skit called "Studs from Microsoft" [1] should tell you about everything you need to know.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=broFpsLHehc

Cherry Hill, Southern New Jersey (Almost Philadelphia), USA

Pros: Weather is not too extreme compared to some other parts of the country. Summer gets hot but not Florida hot. Winter gets cold but not North Dakota cold. Risk of hurricanes/tornadoes is low (yes we did have Hurricane Sandy in NJ). Southern part of NJ is usually nicer in terms of greenery, infrastructure compared to North NJ. Proximity to NY, DC. Amazing food options and very diverse communities bringing all types of people together. We have the best Pizza (yes better than NY I would say). Great Schools. An average NJ school is better than a good school in FL for example. Good healthcare options (access wise). We also have great beaches, mountains, rivers and what not. Full package.

Cons: Property taxes is killer. We are like Top 3 in the nation. Generally high cost of living. Not great for retirees. Thats why older people usually move out of NJ if they can. Very car dependent (but thats most of USA suburbs anway).

Los Angeles

Pros: AFFORDABLE, strong ethnic food centers. Do you want mountains? Yes. Do you want beach? Yes. The working class is diverse. On one freeway, you're looking at rockets, then up north, it's the film industry, and everything in between. Culture is overlooked and underappreciated (see: Getty) compared to other US metro cities.

Cons: Wild EVERYTHING-ELSE living cost structures, chronic homelessness, questionable climate change macro. And oh, wow, a special place for LA drivers.

Los Angeles strikes me as a reversal of the old adage: a great place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit there. It's not really my cup of tea (I walk everywhere), but the everything-access and relatively chill neighborhoods are way more appealing than the reputation LA gets from most outsiders.

huh, so as someone who lives just a bit south in OC and has frequently visited LA, i'm surprised people like living here who don't have millions of dollars (if you mean LA proper).

The safe areas that seem close to the jobs in LA are extremely expensive from what I can tell. Unless you're looking at a 50 minute commute, you don't have too many options, no? Jobs are in downtown or the West Side, and good neighborhoods near there are what, SM, and Beverly Hills?

There are great things about LA (as I said, I like to visit): music scene, comedy, nightlife, restaurants, etc. I love that I can get a drink at a super high end bar with celebrities and then go eat a cheap dog on the street after a show.

Museums are great as well, the Getty is one of the best places to visit in the world. But living there? Not unless I had 5M to plop down for a place in BH...

Rural New Mexico, a couple of hundred miles from the nearest city with many coding jobs, an hour from a real grocery store. Remote work.

Dark skies. Vast quantities of wild life. Sane, friendly neighbors, sufficiently far away. Surrounded by public lands, great hiking starting out my back door. Cheap property and low taxes. Clean, peaceful, quiet.

> neighbors, sufficiently far away

What is your experience with crime? I am intrigued by New Mexico but going by the crime rates, it has some issues. I assume this is primarily in the cities but it is still something that has given me pause.

Any random person you pass here is about as likely to be criminal as someone in Albuquerque, which isn't good. But since there are magnitudes fewer people here the risk of coming across them is much lower. A great response time from the local sheriff would be forty minutes, so self-help is prudent.

My rural subdivision has had one break-in in two decades. The villain was caught on the resident's game cam, he was a usual suspect and a deputy picked him up the next day.

Denver, CO, USA.

Pros: Mountains! Nature access—it's a 90m drive to Rocky Mountain National Park, and plenty of world-class skiing, hiking, climbing, fishing, etc. within an hour or three. Culture is laid-back, friendly, and outdoorsy. It's a progressive oasis—if you're from Utah, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, and you feel constrained by the culture you're living in, Denver's probably your closest escape. A fair number of neighborhoods (especially immediately east and northwest of downtown) are walkable enough to live without a car, though you'll want one to get out of the city. It's cheaper than California or the Northeast, with a huge, busy airport with international flights to most anywhere. We have all four seasons and they're all nice—more sunny days than Florida. I still laugh when I see six inches of dry snow on my car's windshield, walk up to it and _blow it off_ instead of spending an hour shoveling. Food and drink scene is good and getting rapidly better. I genuinely love living here, and it's got better over the years—when I arrived a bit over a decade ago, had planned on sticking it out for twoish years and then either bouncing out to a coast or leaving the states again. But here I still am, and glad of it!

Cons: it's a progressive _oasis_; once you leave the Front Range, it's your choice of Utah, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming...definitely different from a coastal megalopolis, it's far to other population centers. Denver's the biggest city around, but if you're used to NYC/LAX/Chicago it'll feel cozy-small. Middle of the country means international flights to the rest of the global north are basically over the pole (and looooong). It's actually pretty expensive; it'll look cheap compared to SF or NYC but our housing market's been on a run. No ocean (though flights are cheap). Drivers are _atrocious_; rare is the unblown red light. Our produce is improving, but still nowhere near as fresh as you'll get further south. Startup scene is okay? Denver Startup Week is solid & Boulder has tons of startups per capita, but we don't have the same level of VC access as more well-known hubs. And the tech jobs here are plentiful, but don't pay as well as on a coast—remote working is definitely the way to go.

And I read that the Winter Park train is back in action!

It is, and has been for a couple years! Currently weekends only, alas--but great, especially if you've got a place to stay up there.

If you're in the Denver area & looking to get to the slopes without having to drive yourself, there's a number of organizations and clubs around that charter busses; I had a good three or four year streak of working while riding a bus to and from Winter Park/Copper Mountain on Tuesdays and getting some turns in midday when my life still fit well around that sort of thing. (I've small kids in daycare now, so am on hiatus from that arrangement.)

visited your city a few months ago during summer, had a lot of fun one weekend where you guys close up few streets in the core city and everyone zooms around on the electric scooters and bikes. Lack of food options were my only complaints. Incredibly beautiful though!

Yeah, central downtown's restaurant scene got really hollowed out by Covid and hasn't recovered. Heading immediately north from the west end of downtown into the River North district will get you more options if you visit again :)

In terms of sheer beauty in cities, Boulder rivals San Diego for being striking.

Glad you enjoyed yourself!

> Denver's the biggest city around...

... for a really big "around". If you go west, the nearest city the size of Denver is the Bay Area. (If you consider that multiple cities, then Tokyo.) North, you have to go over the pole. Southwest, LA is bigger. Phoenix is in the same ballpark as Denver. Going east, probably Chicago or St. Louis. Southeast, Dallas. All of those are a really long way from Denver - at least a full day's drive, or a medium-to-long plane ride.

Pros: If you find pleasure in both mountains and farmland, you don't have to pick...

In terms of driving, this is 100% spot on.

If you're hopping on an airplane, it's easy to forget how far _west_ Denver is--I say it's the middle of the country, but it's really not. LAX and surrounding airports are less than a three-hour flight and roundtrips can frequently be had for under $200.

I think of the country in thirds - east coast to Chicago, Chicago to Denver, and Denver to the west coast. I think that's roughly accurate thirds (if you take the "east coast" to be Maine rather than Georgia).

If you want the middle, maybe Kansas City?

People forget how vast and sparse the interior American West is; the New York City metro area has a larger population than the whole Mountain timezone.

It's also about a 3hr flight to SFO. Almost commutable. :)

> Drivers are _atrocious_

Very true. I currently live in Boulder County. I've lived in a lot of different places in the USA and Colorado by far has the absolute most absent-minded selfish drivers.

People straight up driving the wrong way down one-way roads unapologetically, going 65 in a residential 25, expired tags, no license plates, and blinkers are rarely used.

(Too late to edit, but append New Mexico to the list of states -- And New Mexico is cool! But if you're looking for density starting from Denver, it's unlikely to scratch that particular itch.)

Brisbane

Pros: Outstanding climate - winter does not exist, it's clear skies and sunny every day. Large enough to get major events. Access to nature. Relatively cheap (compared to Syd/Melb). Good nightlife. Great cafe culture. Good job market.

Cons: Summer is 30-35c and humid often with storms. Max 14 hours of sunlight. Over an hour drive to the 'nice' beaches. Many international departures require a stop in Sydney. Car culture.

I visited Brisbane for YOW once. Out of the three cities, I found it the best (this was summer in December, so it was hot).

> Outstanding climate - ... clear skies and sunny every day

> Summer is 30-35c and humid often with storms.

So it's outstanding except all the times when it's not.

Being able to watch the afternoon storm roll in on the verandah with a beer in hand counts as outstanding weather for me :)

Vancouver

Pros: most beautiful city I've ever seen, the water and mountains are unbeatable, ski resorts nearby, nice beaches, good asian food, friendly strangers

Cons: some really surprisingly unsafe and uncomfortable parts of the city, everything's expensive, lots of rain, biking feels really unsafe in most parts (some good bike lanes)

lol Vancouver is as safe a city as they come - try basically any large city in the us or in the developing world, you'll appreciate Vancouver.

The east side is like a third world wasteland.

> the us or in the developing world

Exactly, I expect Canada to be more like Australia, NZ, West/Northern Europe, not the US or developing world. And for the most part it is

Vancouver here as well, agreed about pros, I’ll add the best summer weather in a city environment (not humid, warm/hot). You don’t need a car to get around other than going for hikes and mountains either, which is neat.

For cons — would consider it safer than any other “city” in North America once you exclude Hastings/surroundings. Safety issues are more concentrated in one zone compared to Toronto, NYC, SF, Seattle and etc.

I’ll add another con — it gets very routine after a few years. You don’t feel like you’re living a city life compared to… basically any other city. It’s nowhere close to Toronto, NYC, London, Paris, Barcelona, Berlin, Tokyo, Hong Kong and etc.

Isn't it Canada? So cold among cons, no?

No, it’s PNW (think Seattle), mild and rainy(drizzly) winter; dry, sunny and very confortable summer.

Wow that’s not bad. Whenever a recruiter approached for a Canadian position I’ve always thought that would be just winter all year long and it will kill me both physically and emotionally. Guess I should at least see NA once :)

Are there warmer places like Spain and Portugal in USA/CA?

The problem, as you go south, is that places like Dallas are too warm, so even in the winter, it still rarely dips below a high of 14°C during the day.

California is the place in the US most like Spain in climate.

California will be too costly for me. I am a work-life balance person and I don't think I want to get into something where it means employer owns my hind. And a lower salary in California, if at all I have to go by popular understanding, won't be enough to save and live. Because I want to come back, I don't want to settle abroad. Anyway that is too far in the future. Thanks for the tip. Have friends in that state so will definitely visit.

Van is further north than Toronto (seriously, look it up) but gets the same Pacific weather fronts that also keep Seattle relatively warm.

Like, it'll get cold and there will occasionally be real snow, but is mild compared to other Western Canadian cites.

There is a lot of Dark and Bleak, though. Also like Seattle, once summer is over it turns gray and stays that way until April.

Thanks. I’ll check this out.

I've been there twice, really love Stanley Park and may even consider moving there. But yeah some parts of the city are wtf, I've seen people injecting themselves in broad daylight a few meters away from police officers.

The people living there seem super friendly though. I think I would prefer Vancouver over Toronto.

South-central Pennsylvania, near Lancaster.

Pros: excellent quality-of-life / cost-of-living trade-off. NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, and Pittsburgh are all reachable in a few hours if you want to do something urban, while local farmer's markets and agriculture abound (the Susquehanna Valley has some of the finest farmland in the world, in terms of yield / acre). Currently have a ~2400 sq foot house with a ~$330K mortgage, within biking distance of grocery stores, an Amish farm market, and a college campus.

Cons: If you dislike religious cultures you may find it hard to cultivate local friendships. Christianity of several stripes has very deep roots here that are hard to avoid. That said, it's not the Bible belt - the Mennonites, for instance, tend to be more focused on disaster relief than on Bible thumping.

> Cons: If you dislike religious cultures you may find it hard to cultivate local friendships. Christianity of several stripes has very deep roots here that are hard to avoid. That said, it's not the Bible belt - the Mennonites, for instance, tend to be more focused on disaster relief than on Bible thumping.

"there is Pittsburg and Philly... and Alabama in between"

Definitely not Southern Baptist bible thumping but yeah, a deeply conservative, in like the 1750's sense, area (i.e Amish, et al). The non-Amish-y types are still pretty deep in the Jesus, too. This is where Rick Santorum comes from, after all.

I live in a residential part of Northern Brooklyn.

Pros: Mostly quiet, good food, cheap, I have a backyard, I know my neighbors. Manhattan is ~25-30 minutes by subway, my friends are ~10 minutes by bike, the good bar/nightclub area is ~15-25 minutes by foot.

Cons: I'm dependent on one okay subway line and one pretty bad one, and I'm a 10-12 minute walk from either in opposite directions. My landlord doesn't like to fix things. People like to ignore driving laws in my neighborhood and paper plates are common (by far the most common crimes, by several orders of magnitude).

I've lived in NYC my whole life, and I'm happy to share any experiences you might find helpful. My email's in my profile!

Edit: My subway lines are okay/bad in terms of reliability, not crime or cleanliness. They're average on the latter.

how cheap is "cheap"? I've never heard anyone say that about brooklyn.

Cheap to me is under 2K, which my rental is (by a decent margin).

Brooklyn can be expensive, but it doesn’t have to be. Avoiding internationally/media famous neighborhoods helps.

Sacramento, California

Pros:

- City of trees, very beautiful this time of the year with the changing colors.

- Very bike-able, in fact they just changed the way the bike lanes work to make them more accessible and visible. If you're staying in the general downtown/midtown area there's no real need to drive a car.

- Lots of beer, lots of food. Plenty of Thai restaurants in particular for some reason.

- I have a soft spot for nearby Davis with its smaller community feel and the arboretum near the university.

Pro/con: Centrally located between the bay area and tahoe/yosemite/etc., meaning you have good vacation choices but you have to drive a couple hours either way.

Cons:

- It's still a city, so it's expensive and the homeless situation is worse than anywhere else I've lived.

- The trees smell bad.

> The trees smell bad

Hah! I had to look this up: "ornamental pear tree".

Davis is one of the nicest places I’ve visited. Just seems like a great place to live.

Tuscany - Chianti Area, Italy

Pros: I am living in one of the most beautiful place in the world. I am surrounded by hills and vineyard, I can reach Florence, Lucca or other wonderful places in less than 30 minutes, mountains to ski or wonderful beaches (i.e. Cinque Terre) in less than 90 minutes. Good food, decent weather, decent healthcare.

Cons: Low salaries, high cost of living and housing (compared also to the rest of Italy), not too many opportunities in tech (I am WFH for a big tech company)

Is your employer local to Italy?

Yes, my company has an Italian legal entity with an office in Milan.

Pittsburgh, PA:

Pros: Affordable, good food, safe(ish), lot's of access to hiking/nature, CMU/tech-scene, doesn't feel overly crowded, and again it's really affordable.

Cons: Lack of good public transportation (having a car is a must), bad city planning (apparently planting a city around three rivers and a bunch of hills is hard), but honestly my biggest complaint is the lack of sunshine. It ranks in the top 5 grayest cities in the USA behind Anchorage, Alaska, Buffalo, New York, and a few others.

Come check it out, especially if you're into sports, PNC Park is one of the most beautiful baseball stadiums. I can't say much for the Pirates, but even if you aren't into sports it'll be a good time.

Chapel Hill, NC.

Pros: mild winters, reasonably pleasant weather year round (although the summers here are a bit hot for some folks' tastes). Lots of good college sports action, reasonably good night-life. Educated people, cool coffee shops and cafes, decent food scene locally. Lots of tech jobs in the greater Triangle area. Plenty of outdoor green spaces, mountain bike trails, running trails, places to fish.

Cons: "good night life" is relative to where I grew up which is completely in the sticks. Chapel Hill has a lot compared to that scene, but can't compare to the really major cities like Chicago, San Fran etc. The same could be said in terms of food, and many other factors. OTOH, the cost of living tends to be less here, so it's a tradeoff to weigh. There are plenty of tech jobs, but locally there is nowhere near the same access to venture capital funding, which can be problematic if you're wanting to go the startup route. In regards to public transit, at least in Chapel Hill proper the buses are free, which is kinda nice. But unfortunately when you look at the Triangle region as a whole, the public transit scene here pretty much sucks. The live music scene here is OK, but we don't have a truly metal oriented club (that I know of) since the old Volume 11 / The Maywood folded. Walnut Creek is a nice outdoor amphitheater venue and gets some nice shows, but still, a lot of major tours bypass our area in favor of Charlotte or whatever.

On balance though, I'm pretty happy in Chapel Hill. I think this a really nice balance of many factors, and I don't feel any particular urge to leave. Although I'm not saying I never would under the right circumstances.

Aspen, CO

Pros:

- Can be outside all year round (provided you love snow like everyone else here).

- Tons of activities, culture, and interesting people.

- I get to play hockey and snowboard / mountain bike in the same day, with maybe 20 minutes of time in my car.

- The weather is impeccable (again if you like winter).

- Small town airport is amazing. Get there 15 minutes before boarding and walk right onto your plane.

Cons:

- Small town. 10k people means you run into people all the time, people build reputations, etc.

- Airport can be unreliable in weather.

- Cost prohibitive for most friends or family to visit easily.

- Everyone is white, and mostly rich. Lack of real diversity.

- Eating out is prohibitively expensive and feels extravagant. (Pro to this is I spend more time with my fiancé at home cooking together and eating healthier)

I lived in NYC for nearly 20 years, and I visit for 3-6 weeks a year. I love NYC more than anything, but also for now really love my life I've built here, even if it gets lonely sometimes -- I always remind myself that I was lonely sometimes in NYC too.

Its been really nice to get out of the day to day commute to work, get coffee at [insert favorite local coffee shot], get lunch, commute home, go out to dinner or order in, go to bed, rinse repeat.

I get to snowboard daily in the winter, ride my mountain bike in the summer, see gorgeous scenery on every ride or drive, and really have mother nature as my playground. I am physically and mentally healthier than I've ever been.

But I miss NYC

I recently moved to Park City and absolutely love it. Same sort of issues as Aspen though, now we just need to expand housing stock and it could be truly incredible.

San Francisco

Pro: The walkable parts are extremely walkable

Con: The unwalkable parts are extremely unwalkable

This is true. It also has a strange combination of being very big in the sense that there are many areas I almost never visit and very small in the sense that you _can_ walk anywhere (but, as you point out, it may be unpleasant, dangerous or both). Personally, I essentially live full time in a few walkable ribbons that maximize the good and minimize the bad.

Unwalkable in terms of hills or sketchiness?

The sketchiness is mostly contained to tenderloin and soma south west of 5th st so fairly easy to avoid

Sketchiness, trash, feces, etc. Surely you don't see any if you live in Pac Heights but near the Tenderloin-Mission district area there's a lot of it.

The entire city is very run-able though (so the Con is a little less so if you're into long distance)

I like San Francisco a lot for biking

Main thing I learned too late is to just build your ability to climb hills (on a bike, or even when walking I suppose) ... that opens up a lot of the city

Twin Peaks and the top of Potrero might out of range even so, but the rest of the city is open

Pros: incredible food, so much to do within a day’s drive, epicenter of tech and jobs a plenty, stable decent weather year round, steep hills that force you into shape, unique interesting people on the streets (not homeless, talking like people singing to themselves or dressed up in costumes)

Cons: expensive, city bureaucracy, rampant nimbyism

I love it. Now I got a family and may move to get some more space / be closer to family. But not an easy decision even after 10 yrs here.

Nashik, India

Pros: The climate and the food I was born and brought up in Nashik, I was in Mumbai for my Education. I agree it's the city of dreams for Indians. One can see the poorest and Richest people in India in Mumbai but the time I was in Mumbai, the hustling culture was really tough and the amount of time people gave to their families was quite poor. I've seen my classmates reach home at 11 pm and then next day report at 9 am neglecting 1-2 hours of traveling each day. Similar to their families. It made me realize how great my hometown is. It's not yet crowded, nor taken over by industries hence the atmosphere is quite maintained and can be a dream home for anyone.

Cons: As I mentioned, there is not a lot of development in the city. In big cities, you earn more but you also pay more and vice versa. So it goes both ways.

That's why I love the place.

Hey! Glad to see a fellow Nashikkar here.

Oakland, Bay Area, California

Pros: Incredible weather, close to ocean and close-ish to mountains, wonderful outdoors and outdoor activities, great ethnic and cultural diversity, excellent food choices, lots of smart, educated, interesting people, close to San Francisco and Silicon Valley, okay public transit (by US standards), world-class universities [nearby], ...

Cons: Very high cost of living, extremely high crime, mediocre public schools, creaky infrastructure, huge drug and homelessness problem, society in a constant state of high stress.

Bucks County, PA (1/3 of the way from Philadelphia to NYC)

Pros: natural beauty all around (wildlife, forests, rivers, parklands, 40% permanently preserved farmland), low key river towns, easy access on Amtrak / SEPTA / NJTransit / I-95 to NYC, Philly, and Princeton, great biking along the towpaths that line the river on both sides, quiet, privacy, good to great schools, 6/10 diversity within 15 miles

Cons: not walkable outside of small towns, only 6/10 diversity as compared to, say, NYC

Las palmas de gran Canaria. Tropical dry weather with all the advantages of Europe. Great expact/digital nomads community Not even mention beaches and endless summertime

It’s my dream to live there….

San Jose

Have not seen anyone post about San Jose yet so here goes. Obviously a great place for tech jobs and fantastic weather with virtually no snow or ice unless you drive 4 hours into the Sierra - cool winters and long warm dry summers. Single folks seem to prefer San Francisco, but San Jose is a great place for families to raise kids in suburbia. Housing is expensive it's true but there are also manufactured housing parks that are much cheaper and really very livable. A few parks even own their own land collectively but most charge a space rent of around $1200/mo that includes utilities. This space rent is a similar amount to what you would pay in real estate taxes on a million dollar 3 bed 2 bath SFH and in San Jose is controlled by law to not go up more than about 3%/year.

Houston

pros: INCREDIBLE food and beer scene, lots of events, surprisingly great museums, really great zoo, symphony is top notch, friendly people, surprisingly cheap, very high cultural and political diversity, good parks system, did I mention the food?

Cons: swampy, brutal summers, public transit (it exists but won't get you anywhere you want to go), suburban sprawl for miles and miles, parks aren't picturesque, Houston is to oil and gas what the bay is to tech

Houston is okay to live in. I lived there for 30+ years and while you're not wrong about your pros and cons, those cons severely outweighed the pros more often than not for me. For instance, the zoo is great, when the heat isn't trying to kill you. The sprawl can be a real pain, especially if you're heading from one corner to the other (Kingwood to Sugar Land / Katy is just not enjoyable at all).

Add in the current politics in Texas and yeah, I'm glad I'm not in Houston these days.

São Paulo

Pros: it's the business and tech city in South America, lots and lots of immigrants and their delicious restaurants, basically all shows and band tours in South America pass through here. Good internet and infrastructure. Good doctors and healthcare. Cheapest place to travel abroad from Brazil.

Cons: it is not very safe[1]; not much nature like Rio.

[1] safe is a relative standard, I never suffered any kind of theft or robbery living here for 10+ years.

I'd love to move to Brasil but I'm too scared

I moved to NYC from SF about 4 years ago. I’ve faced a lot of culture shock and I’m not sure I’d recommend it. I don’t think NYC has what it takes to become an innovation hub, the way SF/San Jose/Seattle are. There’s a pervasive small-c conservatism here, an attachment to tradition in so many ways, that makes it tough for interesting, out of the box, uncomfortable ideas to take root. There are tons of lifestyle pros to living here (entertainment, food, people, transportation), but if you’re deeply interested in technology, innovation, pushing boundaries, etc, then you might not find what you’re looking for here.

In Surrey in the United Kingdom. It's in the South East area about an hour train commute to London.

Pros: Safe. Beautiful. Quote: "Surrey is officially England's most densely-wooded county, with more than one-fifth of its land area covered by trees". We're surrounded by forests, countryside, hills. Our town in busy enough to be fun but not city busy. People are friendly (at least in the part we live, not everywhere). English humour is great. Pubs are fantastic (nothing like the British pub). I work from home most of the time and commute to London once or twice a week. I get paid a good London salary. Also London is a commute away and London is London, lots of culture and things to do.

Cons: Very expensive housing. We have a relatively small house compared to those surrounding us (120 sq m) and it still cost us an enormous amount. Traffic is bad as the roads here haven't been designed for the number of people. The weather is rubbish. We have small children and many months of the year you spend indoors because it is rainy and very cold (not a good combination).

If it wasn't for the weather and house prices, it would be my ideal place to live (except no mountains). But I guess house prices are high because it is so good.

I do often daydream about moving somewhere warmer though. I'd quite enjoy spending some time in Singapore or Malaysia I think.

Sydney

Pros: good weather: lovely summers, cool but not too cold winters. The harbour and beaches are beautiful. Great culture. Good tech scene.

Cons: very expensive housing. The suburbs are nothing special. Far from Europe or America.

I loved the food in Sydney too. Best coffee in the world. Good mixed food too - pad thai, kebabs, burgers, yogurt, whatever. The beaches get a lot of attention, but the city and markets are beautiful too.

Personally, I found the weather quite harsh. The joke was that we had two tornadoes in a day once and it didn't even make front page. The other joke is we'd always say the winter wind would rip your umbrella apart, and everyone who's never been there thinks it's an exaggeration.

Would like to also add:

Pros:

* Salaries are pretty excellent for tech-workers and pretty active demand for talent.

* Sane healthcare system (can get free/cheap, quality medication but can also pay more for private/better healthcare)

* Retirement funds NOT managed by whatever dodgy-as-fuck company you work for, compulsory, and regulated by the government. i.e.: you WILL actually receive one.

* Mercifully sensible attitude to work/life balance. Decent annual leave allocations, parent-friendly attitudes (often in law).

* Well-educated population with enthusiastic attitude to embracing positive tech trends.

Cons:

* Jesus, why is real estate so expensive here? (As said above). We have so much land! The answer is: it's complicated.

* Abominable level of right-wing media disinformation via TV/Newspapers because Rupert Murdoch is a complete asshole and unfortunately Australian. Try sitting in a taxi with the radio tuned to Ray Hadley or Alan Jones for the delightful experience of hearing racism, bigotry, class-warfare, victim-blaming and never-ending scapegoating for an exercise in tolerance.

Chicago

Pros: Affordable compared to similar cities, yet very rich and diverse economy with multiple sectors represented. Friendly people and decent infrastructure. Relatively "central" in the US for domestic travel.

Cons: Extreme weather. Above average (though not as bad as advertised) crime problems. Lack of any worthwhile natural POI except for the lake. Relative isolation from other great cities in the US, as most of the rest of the Midwest is dead, dying, or uninteresting. Limited entrepreneurial culture.

Washington, DC.

Pros: Decent public transportation, the city itself is compact, it has good tree coverage and lots of parks. Many museums are free.

Cons: There are a lot of car break-ins lately. Many of the public schools are bad--many upper-middle-class parents steer their kids through charters to magnets or just go the private school route. Houses are expensive, rentals I've lost track of. The summer weather encourages a lot of people to stay inside in air conditioning.

Underrated food scene too.

Somewhere in Svealand, Sweden.

Pros: not much crime, pretty calm, a lot of wilderness that I can access thanks to "allemansrätten", not very far from Norway, not super densely populated, good working conditions, property is not very expensive compared to elsewhere

Cons: not a great government, expensive electricity, not many "tech" jobs, somewhat boring, high taxes, education system isn't that great

Vienna, Austria

Pros:

- Many available flats.

- Good night life.

- Many things to do.

- Public transport is ok. Great compared to the US at least.

Cons:

- Terrible for starting a startup (bureaucracy, little interest from VCs, governmental grants are assigned based on meeting formal requirements instead of potential success of business)

- Taxes are beyond crazy and people request them to be increased even further.

- Social initiatives only target those who are experts in bureaucracy and know how to take advantage of them.

- Populist goverment

>- Taxes are beyond crazy and people request them to be increased even further.

The cost of a heavily burdened welfare state.

Ha Noi, Viet Nam

Pros: Food is awesome because it is fresh, cheap, and diverse. Everything is cheap, feel unique vibe.

Cons: A lot of motorbikes cause traffic problems and reduce air conditioning quality. However, motobikes have become a part of Vietnamese life.

I just spent six weeks there. I liked it in general but I felt like the air and the traffic were both dangers that would get me eventually if I lived there permanently. I do like how the old quarter is closed for traffic at the weekend. Gives it a festival vibe.

I just spent two weeks in Vietnam, one in Hanoi. The motorbikes were actually something I could deal with - it was chaos, but organized. Everyone on the road seemed hyper alert and traffic just sort of flowed. The thing I could not get used to was the air quality. The AQI was easily over 120 every day I was there, and it just felt like I stuck my face in the exhaust pipe of a bus every waking moment. If Vietnam could figure out its pollution issue, I feel like it could easily be an incredible place to live.

Amsterdam, NL

Pro - Like a cute oversized village where you can casually stroll or bike everywhere but still big enough to offer what cities can offer, safe, green and pretty.

Con - If unlucky with the housing market it can be a non stop nightmareish series of short-term illegal precarious living situations, getting conned in various ways, and have no prospect of planning your life.

Alma QC.

Pros: small city, super safe, the beach is near and awesome in summer, the forest great any season, affordable housing, winter sports.

Cons: not enough cool restaurants and cultural life, you need a car as it's not walkable friendly.

Chicago

Pros:

- Beautiful lakefront, architecture, & parks

- Dense, walkable, & easy to get around by train or bike

- Tons of cool things to do & people to meet (festivals, concerts, meetups, clubs, museums)

- Relatively inexpensive, especially compared to NYC or LA

- Within driving distance of my midwestern family

Cons:

- Car traffic is often bad (I don't drive in the city)

- I often have to switch CTA train cars because of people smoking on the train

- Winters are cold (I'm used to bundling up)

- Property tax rate is relatively high

Recently visited Chicago for the first time, and have been back once or twice since. I really liked the vibe there. It felt like it had a lot of energy (similar to New York) but felt much less claustrophobic, a bit more open, and a bit friendlier? I don't know if that is Chicago's reputation, but I really liked it there. Great freakin food too. Monteverde, so good.

That's how I feel, too. And I do think that the city has a midwestern friendliness (especially in the neighborhoods, outside of the loop). I haven't been to Monteverde, but I'll check it out!

That's pretty much exactly Chicago's rep; it's the US city most like New York City, and it's of course not really like it at all, and some of the many ways it's different (alleys and garbage collection, seeing the sky) are improvements.

Gilbert, Arizona

Pros:

Often ranked a top places to live in the US. Very safe for families. Day trip access to Ocean/Snow/Lakes/Mountains. Lots of good food to discover. Relatively cheap CoL. No snow.

Cons:

A car is absolutely mandatory. The purge June-Aug. Everyone is moving here. CoL is rising quickly. The sprawl can make hobby/tech meetups inconvenient to attend.

Day trip to ocean - where? Looks like San Diego is at least 6 hrs away. Definitely fair for a weekend trip

Day-trip wasn't the right word. That said, RockyPoint Mexico is 3hrs~.

I lived in Phoenix for 20+ years, I think you're really underselling how hot it is from May thru October. Be prepared to spend 95% of your time inside air conditioning in that time period.

Orange County, cA.

Pros:

Wonderful weather, very safe, good schools and a good mix of industry and pleasant suburbs of all kinds, from old beach towns to cliffside mansions to ranch houses with wide streets and new denser condo areas. Not as expensive as LA and The Bay.

A short drive to LA, so some people will commute to jobs up there, but also a decent amount nearby.

I'm about 10 minutes from Blizzard, a large Amazon office, Broadcom, and numerous other smaller tech companies. About a 25 minute commute to a decent sized Google office as well (~1k people).

Cons: Still pretty expensive and not near as many entry level tech jobs as the Bay, NYC, Austin, and other tech hubs.

Still, 1.6 million can get you a nicer, newer four bedroom detached sfh in a very pleasant neighborhood. I'm guessing it's quite a bit more in the Bay or NYC.

East end of Toronto (East York)

Pros: - Great variety of foods around here (I love Hakka!) - Relatively "affordable" where you can afford a semi or detached home (albeit it'll be 100 years old with a smaller backyard) - Great walkability to small markets, restaurants, breweries and Lake Ontario - Sense of community - Pretty good transit for North America (24 hour street car, subway line and a local rail within a 5 min walk) - Bike lanes becoming more common

Cons: - Generally cold climate means a short growing season for my victory garden - Our salaries lag our southern neighbours - The health care system is showing signs of failing under pressure

Lalitpur, Nepal

Pros: Cheap, flat 5% tax on foreign income, Good food, Temples, and Mighty Himalayas scenery on a weekend hike, Safe for males and females, Good tolerance of LGBTIQ+, legalized same-sex marriage.

Cons: Traffic, Expensive Health facilities, Corruption

Syracuse, Ny

Pros: * cost of living is very cheap * ~4 hours from Boston, nyc, Toronto * lots of nature * for the col, there is a solid quality of life * winters are not as bad as it’s portrayed in media

Cons: * crime and poverty for the city size * typical rust belt issues (although Micron still says they are coming)

I work remote and live very well in this area, and I’m sort of a home body so I mostly enjoy a quiet chill life with my family. I usually have to go to the office in nyc a few times a year (55 min flight) and that lets me get my fix of food and fun so it has worked for me for the past several years since I have bought a house here

Helsinki, Finland.

Pros: Living in the capital city you don't need a car - a monthly bus-pass covers all the metro/tram/bus trips you need for €50 or so. The city is also very walkable, which is particularly good for children.

If you have children they can go to daycare from 1year old, and the cost of that is subsidized, they start school properly at age of 7 and generally take themselves there (mostly by walking, some might cycle or take a bus).

The cities are safe, the houses are expensive but not out of reach, and renting isn't so bad, most buildings have double/triple glazing and are very well insulated.

Nature is easy to reach, and readily appreciated. Children spend a couple of hours outdoors at school, even in the winters. Also if you do get cold a sauna is a great way to warm up!

Lots of technology companies, relative to the city of the country, and English is frequently the working language.

Cons: The winters get cold, it has been -10°C for the past week, and it will get colder soon enough. The winters are also dark. As a UK-native the language is complex and alien, but willingness to learn and practice is appreciated - the con is that if you struggle to order something in broken Finnish people will usually switch to English, which helps you in the short-term, but screws you over in the long term.

Alcoholism is common, and winter depression, but the alcoholism in Scotland is significantly worse so don't go expecting something crazy.

Montreal.

Pros: housing costs much lower than other Canadian cities. Very easy to get around without a car (horrible with a car). Lots of varied, nice neighborhoods. Good food and restaurants, though I find there are some "deserts" with not much locally. Very safe compared to other cities. A good vibe of people enjoying life. Generally good for outdoor activities, between the mountain, running and bike trails, lots of parks. Decently close to some good provincial parks. I understand there is good nightlife but I'm too old to comment.

Cons are more subjective.

I’d love to spend some time living in Montreal. It and Quebec City feel like as close as one can get to Euro living without hopping over the pond.

Dallas / Fort Worth, TX

Pros: More tech jobs at a higher average salary and much lower cost of living than Austin (but see cons). No state income tax. 2000 sqft. house in a premium school district for $500k. Plenty of art, culture, and nightlife. 5 major sports. It's 60 degrees Farenheit right now in December. A blue city politically (like all major cities) with an LGBT district, etc. Better parks and outdoor life than you'd think. Traffic congestion not as bad as you'd think (but see cons). Fastest growing metro in America so the good things will mostly improve further (but not cost of living).

Cons: America's worst drivers (lack of congestion just means they can cut you off faster). Minimal public transportation and walkability. State politics are still very red and basic competency and state capacity are becoming issues. Tech jobs are mostly generic Fortune 500; minimal startup scene. Taxes are higher than you'd think; the lack of income tax comes with exorbitant sales and property tax. The only saving grace of summer is that there is no Gulf Coast humidity, but it's still a damp furnace. No beach or much of any natural beauty of any kind withing hundreds of miles.

Salt Lake City, UT

Pros: plenty of tech jobs, mountains and national parks right next door, very clean and safe city, healthy and well educated population, delta hub.

Cons: the lake may kill us one day, or the house prices.

Pros: Skiing. "The greatest snow on earth" is not just a marketing slogan.

Cons: Air pollution. It's a valley, and all the pollution gets trapped in the valley and can stay there for days.

Cons: It's less Mormon than the rest of Utah, but still Mormon enough that, if you're not Mormon, you can find it kind of stifling. (But pro to the con, or credit where due - it's part of why it's such a safe city for it's size.)

What's your take on why it's reported to be one of the most dangerous cities in America?

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ut/salt-lake-city/crime

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/is-salt-lake-city-r...

That bottom link says Salt Lake is below the national average in violent crimes, but higher in property crimes. Well, for "dangerous", I think of violence, not property crimes.

Dunedin, NZ for the last 10 years.

Pros: our family are all here so we don’t have to spend holidays coming back anymore. Lifestyle wise - it’s quiet and everything we do is within about a 15 minute drive from our house. The kids school is a 2 min walk, the center of town is just over 10 mins away. Houses were affordable when we brought.

Cons: it’s far away from everything and the airport connections are extra shitty since covid. Housing is expensive. It’s quiet…

Perth, Australia

Pros: beautiful beaches, great weather. Good public transport. Strong mining sector. Mostly good economy.

Cons: expensive CoL. Isolated from the rest of the world and even the rest of Australia. Difficult to find tech investment, most investment funds are focused on real estate with a bit of mining. Housing is expensive (rent and purchase). No real tech scene or community.

Boston area.

Pros: Great suburbs to raise a family, small, people from all over, close to Europe, diverse opportunities (not just tech), relatively safe, bike paths, green, beach in the summer, more sunshine than Seattle, plenty of water, NH, Vermont, and Maine in the north.

Cons: Harvard, food (good cafes, shitty restaurants), expensive, windy and cold in the winter (not much snow though), rains all year, Boston the city sucks.

I liked boston the city whenI was there. It's no New York, but the common and esplanade are beautiful and it's certainly not _dead_.

Seaport is cool, even if it totally blows my mind how much they've built at a level that is clearly going to get crushed by rising sea levels.

I was exaggerating of course. There are nice things about Boston. The new seaport is indeed nice (super fancy and expensive), Charles river too. I don't like the common. Back Bay is not bad, but Newbury street is overrated and expensive. (although it has a few gems). The downtown crossing area sucks. Quincy market too. North end has good Italian restaurants. Driving in the city and parking is really bad (which bothers me more as a pedestrian). It's not a pretty urban city compared to Chicago or most European cities of similar size.

Overall, as someone who lives in the suburbs of Boston, it's nice to visit every once in a while, but that's about it.

Central NJ, a few train hops out of NYC.

Pros: food is good, people are pleasant enough, it's a place run with sense and meritocratically, no matter your politics. There is practically someone from every strata around, from high powered tech and business goons to the salt of the earth types the further away from a metro-connected train station you get.

Cons: COVID really expedited the yuppie locusts from the city moving in and we are still dealing with that. Crime is still an issue in some areas, mainly Newark (even though idk what would possess a regular person to willingly go to the shitty aside from jury duty), but tbh it's mainly downlow organized crime. You will see a lot of small businesses stay open despite not having a customer in months. Recent demographic changes has also increased almost a nepotistic streak, at least where I am.

Austin, TX, USA

Pros:

- “silicon hills” - lots of tech jobs, second only to the Bay Area if you do embedded software or hardware.

- Chill vibe. Friendly people, low crime, thriving LBGTQ+ community

- World-class tacos, BBQ, and beer

- Lots of bars and nightlife if that’s your cup of tea

- Moderate cost of living. Not as good as 10 years ago, but still very doable, especially if you are willing to live out in the ‘burbs. Still possible to have a nice house and put your kids in good schools without being in the 1%. Unlike the Bay Area, not priced out of having a family.

- Spring and Fall. For about 6-8 months of the year, great weather.

- Lots of stuff to do in driving distance. Good outdoor hikes, boating/fishing/camping, and lots of stuff to do in Houston and Dallas.

- Good seasonal events. SXSW, ACL, F1 race, UT football

- UT is here and it’s very possible to go for a top-10-ranked engineering masters degree while you work a high-paying tech job.

Cons:

— Summer. 90 days of 100F+ weather.

- Winter. Infrastructure not set up for snow / ice, but it happens for a few days every year or two. When it does, it is exceptionally disruptive.

- Traffic. IH-35 through downtown Austin is consistently rated the most congested piece of highway in the USA. Public transport is weak, most people need to have a car.

- Police. During the Black Lives Matter protests, things broke down between the community and APD. A bunch “quiet quit” and sit in their cars playing on their phone all day. 911 has had 30 minute hold times. It’s to the point they sent in the state police to help. Expect hours to get a response for non-violent crime.

- Food. Outside of tacos, beer, BBQ, there are limited options. Somewhat mitigated by world-class food in Houston being a two hour drive away.

- Allergies. Cedar pollen turns everyone’s cars green for weeks at a time. Not fun to breathe that stuff.

- Museums, Performing Arts. Not much here. Again, somewhat mitigated by world-class options in Houston and Dallas being in day-tripping distance.

- High property taxes. TX has no state income tax, but the property tax ends up being higher than state income tax in CA in many circumstances.

All-in-all, it’s not a bad place to live.

For nightlife... that's quite the undersell. There are live bands everywhere, every night of the week. Every kind of genre. Thousands of ppl mingling, dancing in/outside these bars. It is better than Vegas's Fremont Street ;) The nightlife is phenomenal for singles.

It's not just 'quiet quitting'. Austin defunded their police force by 30%. Morale dropped significantly and there is now a shortage of police.

After-all, who wants to work in a city where they are not wanted and actively hated.

Homicide is up 70% and violent crime is up. Police response times are 30% longer.

Just an FYI... housing prices are expected to drop 12% in the near term.

Munster, Indiana, a Chicago suburb. We're the food court of the region. Not terribly far from Chicago but not a ton of things to do locally.

Pro: way cheaper taxes than Illinois and Chicago

It's a red state, we have constitutional carry, so crime is far lower than Chicago

Con: it's a Red State, with all the hazards for women that entails.

Chicago Winters

Indianapolis

Pros: easy to get around town, great airport, lots to do, and very very affordable.

Cons: Not pedestrian friendly. Sprawl.

Cons: Indianapolis

Some neighborhoods are pedestrian friendly but yes generally not. Biking ain’t great but downtown is making progress.

I’ll just add mine here:

Pros: decent chef-driven dining scene, active downtown due to sports and conferences, affordable, small enough to not feel like a major metro but big enough to have stuff to see/do, not a far drive to country areas to get out of town. As someone who grew up in a small town but then have lived in major metros since, I’m most comfortable in Indy.

Cons: distance to mountains (7 hr to Smokies) or oceans (13 hr to outer banks), relatively tame and limited local hiking options, potholes in spring, limited tech options (Eli Lilly, Salesforce, Rolls Royce, Cummins, Roche, Beckman, Corteva, Hospitals, … maybe a few others I'm forgetting).

> limited tech options (Eli Lilly, Salesforce, Rolls Royce, Cummins, Roche, Beckman, Corteva, Hospitals, … maybe a few others I'm forgetting)

Aside Salesforce, these are just big companies. The startup scene here is pretty good (I run one), and there are many other tech companies (Genesys, 1st Internet Bank, Jobvite - techpoint.org is the tech industry trade group here) that have a significant presence here. It's not SV, but if you are a developer, you can do alright here.

The woods. An hour away from where the lights stop in a satellite image. Literally on the last FCC broadband map hexagon.

Pros: Quiet. Clean. Dark. Private. Land. Tractable government. Low costs. No landlord, no HOA. Paid for. Good neighbors. Wildlife.

Cons: Power outages. Wildlife.

Seattle!

Pros

- Most beautiful city in the world 2 months per year

- Nice neighborhoods filled with SFHs

- Right next to an international airport (Seatac) that flies to Europe / Asia

- So many tech employers, it's hard not to end up in a high paying job

- Access to mountains and the Pacific ocean within a few hours drive

- Non-religious

Cons

- Rainy 9 months per year

- Summer months bring fires that make the air quality terrible during the few favorable months

- Geography makes the traffic awful. All roads lead to choke points (AKA bridges)

- Very visible homeless scene that have taken over most green spaces with tents, RVs, assaults, and fires

- Surprising lack of VC funding for early stage startups

- Public transportation isn't good enough to rely on. Might be a 20 - 30 minute walk to the nearest connivence store

I moved out 4 years ago.

Charleston, SC

Pros: Beautiful weather, nice beaches and outdoor recreation opportunities, amazing food, culture. Vibrant, if smallish, tech community.

Cons: July and August are HOT. Housing and cost of living is a little high (not NYC or SF, but still). It's flat - really, really flat.

Portland, OR

Pros:

• Best city for running in the US

• Relatively cheap still - I pay $1200/month for a 1-bedroom

• Easy to get around without a car if you bike

Cons:

• Tons of restaurants and local businesses shutting down

• Increase in property crime as a result of drugs

• Average summer is going from a few days of 90+ to a week of days pushing 100 degrees with hardly any overnight cooling

What I love most about Portland OR isn't so much the city itself, but the surroundings. The area up in the Columbia River Gorge and what-not... beautiful scenery, great trails and outdoor areas. Waterfalls, etc. I just love that area.

Yeah the Coast Range, Gorge, and Mt. Hood trails are incredible but I really love being able to jog 3 miles to a trailhead that connects 100+ miles of really nice trails right from my front door.

I was born in Portland but haven't lived there since I was 2. But the times I visited I really thought the downtown area and food scene were way better than Seattle's (and definitely cheaper, and they have a MUJI!), at least before the pandemic. Better public transit, and PDX seems more sane than SEA.

A pity about the summers though.

I love the International District in Seattle but otherwise it’s too spread out a city for me. I found a deal for a tiny $450/month studio there in 2010 and almost moved. I was living in Portland’s Old Town/Chinatown area at the time and it just wasn’t the same, although the Chinese Garden is very nice.

Rural southwestern Washington State

Pros:

Good mix of political diversity, all the benefits of a small town but close enough to Portland to enjoy city perks, no state income tax and close Oregon which has no sales tax, within driving distance to both Portland and Seattle, weather is unbeatable, great for being outdoors with mountains and beach nearby, decent tech scene, some of the best beer, food and wine in the country

Cons:

Homelessness in both Portland and Seattle, cost of living is relatively high but not as bad as CA

I previously lived in upstate NY and FL and the Pacific Northwest is hands down my favorite and plan to be here the rest of my days.

Bend, Oregon. Population 100k.

Pros: excellent outdoor recreation opportunities winter and summer. Friendly people. Low crime. Very dog friendly.

Cons: not as much food variety as the big city. Relatively expensive housing. Few local tech jobs.

Hello from Bend as well!

We do have a LITTLE bit of tech here... Codepen, Sony, Kollective, Craft CMS... https://www.thesiliconforest.com/bend-tech-companies

And we have a BUNCH of coworking spaces and cafes and breweries and such to work from. A substantial vanlife / nomad population.

I hope it doesn't grow too techy though :) Nice that it's still small-ish and outdoorsy.

Near San Francisco

Pro: it's near San Francisco

Another pro: it's not San Francisco

More seriously, I love the bay area, and where I live, housing is much cheaper, and it's much safer and much cleaner.

Beautiful places to go hiking, great places to eat / hang out. Bay area is really fantastic.

I love it. No complaints.

Philadelphia

Pros: Original capital (history!), world class art museum, 17/18th century architecture, amazing food scene and groceries. Affordable compared to most major metros in center and close neighborhoods, as in you can own a house here and the carrying costs aren't high. Philly rowhomes are plentiful! If you're making NYC money you will live like a king.

Transit system, the el (subway) and regional rail are decent. Tech scene small, easy to network. Amtrak goes to NYC, Lancaster, DC, big station. Healthcare very good, several world class hospitals in the area (Jefferson, Penn, etc). Starting to get protected bike lanes in some areas, if you asked me 5y ago if it would happen I would have said not in my lifetime. Traffic can be a little nuts on 76, but in general fine if you stay away from center city.

Music venues are great, many and small. Most things don't require several months in advance to get a ticket. If you like live music you can see things from your local noise band up to Arcade Fire easily. Fun art scene, lots of things going on.

Very close to nature, the original green city! Airport is very accessible, though not the best. You have some choices, I have gone to Newark for things like Porter to go to Toronto.

Cons: Crime a little high, rep as opioid Disneyland, can be very dirty. Typical US city stuff: stolen packages, certain areas very bad (Philly is good block bad block), some things can't be bought in stores without a key assist because of shoplifting. Carjacking at a new high recently.

City wage tax ends up creating a higher than expected tax setup. Property taxes are low for a city, and services are reflected by that. Schools are not great, there are some good academies but I don't know the system.

Tech jobs are ok here, but definitely small and does not have the critical mass of a tech hub. Comcast, Blue Cross, Oracle are here, but pay slightly lower than major tech hubs.

Personal bias: I work in NYC, live in Philly. The savings resulted in me being able to buy in a top 3 neighborhood, and seems like it was a good decision. YMMV.

In short, come visit, climb the Art Museum steps, and look at the possibilities!

San Diego

Pros: Best Mexican food in the country, proximity to Mexico, beaches, biotech (if that’s your industry), weather, laid back, great zoo, people are generally active.

Cons: Very expensive CoL relative to income (“sunshine tax”: despite the same if not higher housing costs than other west coast cities, salaries are comparatively lower), not the best tech scene (e.g. tech meet up events hard to come by), tourist season can have bad traffic, people who purchase second/third homes here.

Pro/con depending on who you ask: everything is 15 minutes away from everywhere (unless you’re at the peripherals).

Have you found any tech meetups here that were worth it? I find myself agreeing that the tech scene is a bit lacking (I only have a few tech-minded friends) but then again I haven't really made much effort to look around.

Stuttgart, Germany

Pros: Great economy, companies like Mercedes Benz, Bosch, STIHL, etc. are from here, which makes the region very rich. We have cool vineyards and a lot to explore (beautiful old towns, black forest, castles, etc.). Great Dialect ;-)

Cons: No ocean. We have 4 seasons, so it gets quite cold for several months of the year. Housing prices are insane, a lot of people are only able to rent. Aaaand we are a meme because of all the construction sites, especially our train station.

Silesia region (near Katowice), Poland.

Pros:

- Very high ratio of software salaries to median wage. As a senior, you easily take home roughly 5x the median wage, or more. This translates into high standard of living (it's easy to get your pick of real estate, afford best services etc.).

- Because of the above, going FIRE on a regular developer salary is actually very realistic. Don't need to kill yourself in a FAANG, just work a regular job for a bank or something and you'll get there if you want to.

- No street crime. Everybody feels completely safe on the streets pretty much all the time, even though it's a metro area of 2+ million people.

- No drugs, no drug dealers.

- Less obsession with money, status and achievement than in Western societies. Around here, people just want to live content, regular lives, and not be rock stars, millionaires or best-selling authors.

Cons:

- Poor air quality in the heating season (October - April) on cold, windless days.

- Public transit could be better (and is better in wealthier Polish cities).

- Lots of remnants of old mines (slag heaps etc.) scattered around the area. They're being gradually recultivated into green areas, or just built over, but it will take decades to heal the landscape completely.

- Neighboring Russia is openly hostile towards us, and can invade Poland within the next 5-10 years.

Small town in central NY.

Pros: I feel like I’m deeply connected to the community. All the stores now know me by name. Less racism than major cities (I’m brown). I am living very close to nature and because of it, have a better mental health.

Cons: less choice in everything. Don’t like your dentist? Well, you have only a few more to choose from. Transportation sucks too.

I live in central Arkansas, USA.

Good: Low cost of living, great people, good outdoor life, moderate winters, fantastic place to raise a family

Not so good: Hot summers, limited population means limited big-city activities, some areas underdeveloped

All things considered, I chose Arkansas to be my home after living in several other states, including some of the bigger ones.

Atlanta, Georgia

Pros: No natural disasters, fairly affordable, good schools.

2-3 hour flight to the Bahamas / Caribbean.

Cons: Summer weather sucks as it is too humid and hot. No winter / snow. Proximity to beach and mountains for skiing sucks.

Cant really enjoy the outdoor weather due to the sticky humidity most time of the year.

Rocklin, California pros: great for kids, good schools, lots of parks cons: no place to walk to, boring

Prague, Czech Republic

Pros: Beautiful architecture, rich nightlife, in the center of Europe (less than 4 hours of driving to Vienna, Bratislava, Berlin, Dresden, Munich, Leipzig, etc), good food (not the traditional Czech cuisine). The best beer in the world. Excellent public transport (all over the country). The salaries in IT are on the level of Germany, unless you’re a beginner. Almost everyone has a dog.

Cons: Expensive rent, especially relative to the average income. The language is difficult to learn if you’re not Slavic. Prices in supermarkets are among the highest in Europe, but services are generally cheap. The dogs often forget to pick their poop up.

For real? You can net 5000 eur a month in Prague?

Yes. There are big banks, Microsoft, Amazon, JetBrains, Avast, quite a few mid-size US companies, all paying well. Smaller Czech companies not so much.

I've been to Prague once on vacation. It's probably the most beautiful central european capital there is tbh. Would totally buy a house there before the real estate market reaches the 10k per sqm that there is here :).

It’s at 5k now, so hurry up :D

It's true, the beer in Prague is excellent. Overall, I like the beer culture in the Czech Republic. The language is easy to learn, especially if you are from Slovakia like me :) I would like to say hello to Prague.

That’s why most Slovaks here don’t even bother to learn it :D

San Diego, CA

Pros: Laid back culture, interesting geography, great food of all kinds (especially Mexican), climate

Cons: Expensive and crowded

Southern California.

Pros: mountain biking.

Cons: Drains all your money, then squanders it through corruption, laziness, incompetence.

San Diego.

Pros: Weather, activities. People are chill and the Mexican food is dank.

Cons: Spensie and the wages aren't great; prefer to work remote for that Bay Area $

Austin, TX

Pros: cheap cost of living for a tech city, warm most of the year, BBQ and live music

Cons: it's hellishly hot for 2-3 months, it's expensive compared to other (non-tech) cities, politically liberal folks will find state politics oppressive

I wrote a much more in-depth analysis of the best city for techies in 2024. TLDR, I think Seattle is probably the best place overall. The Bay is still king if you want to maximize for career growth, though: https://overthinkingmoney.com/2023/11/21/best-city-for-techi...

That was super cool.

Atlanta just barely OTP (the suburbs, right outside our ring freeway.

Pros: Much easier to make it here than Los Angeles, where I grew up. Government processes are simpler, taxes are lower for my income bracket and easier to reason about. There. Are. So. Many. Trees.

Walkability depends on where you live but is good where I am and even better in Midtown. Where I live it’s a lot like walking in the woods except you have a sidewalk and a Kroger/Wholefoods and local downtown stretch just 20 minutes walking down the road.

If you’re into sports, we have one of everything.

We have a subway that actually takes you places you want to go, including the airport. Larger stations have a park and ride so the last mile isn’t all that difficult to handle. It’s a shockingly progressive transit system for the part of the world we are in.

While LAX is getting better, ATL is such a better airport. I used to hate having to deal with LAX for my work travel. ATL is so much easier to get in and out of and the facilities are top tier. Delta is the dominant carrier and they’re very good at what they do. As a nice bonus, I save a few hours flying to Europe vs LA.

Cons: If you live outside the perimeter, this can be socially the equivalent of living in another state. I have friends that won’t drive 15 minutes to where I am “because it is too far.”

The population is growing very quickly so we have rush hours approximating Los Angeles. Whenever I am with another ex-Californian or an ex-New Yorker, we joke that the locals have no idea what is happening to them and that this is a Baby LA/NY in the making. If this is managed correctly I think it’ll work out ok. We lack any guarantee that we won’t see the problems those cities have today in our future.

While the tax and fee structures are good for me, it’s effectively a regressive tax system for the poor.

Some parts of the city seem to consider paving roads optional. “Put a plate on it” is a common joke referring to steel plates being placed everywhere road work has not been completed. This has gotten better but the “Steel Plate” is an active meme on ATL Reddit.

While Delta is a good airline, the ATL airport should really just be named “Delta Airport”. For work, I travel to some countries in Europe where Star Alliance airlines are the primary carriers. I’m not particularly concerned about the seat I’m flying in, but nothing has caused me as much travel pain as flying in a KLM long haul flight in Economy.

Lastly, you can definitely move to parts of the ATL metro that are unwalkable (as in, no sidewalks and only Strodes between your housing community and other places) and distant from all the city’s points of interest. I wouldn’t rely on a third party to find you a place to live unless you aim for something right in the middle of the city. It’s possible to have a drive that is 20 minutes by flight of the crow take 45 minutes due to the way roads are linked and how the topography affects travel time. One quadrant of the city does not have a link to the subway.

Hsinchu, Taiwan

Pro: Taiwan is overall a very convenient place to live. Cheap delicious food; convenience stores on every other block; public transportation is great in Taipei, decent everywhere else; beautiful mountain hiking trails, and beautiful beaches in the south; very friendly people

Con: Real-estate is ridiculously expensive especially when you factor in the local salaries; Local work culture is very much long hours to give the boss face (I work remotely); Mandarin isn't the easiest language to learn (especially if you have hopes of reading/writing); The Taiwanese often miss my favorite form of humor -- sarcasm

(Living in Hsinchu to be close to my wife's family while we have little kids, but Kaohsiung and Taipei are tied for my favorite Taiwanese city to live).

One thing I hate about Hsinchu was its windy weather. I do agree Taipei are much better and Kaoshiung is certainly in my second place compared to Hsinchu.

Germany, specifically south Germany (Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg)

Pros:

- Safe

- Clean

- Lots of hiking possibilities (although wild camping is not allowed).

- Weather is decent. More sunlight than further north and not as wet as further west. And quite warm/hot in the summers, but with a couple of wet weeks as respite.

- Food is decent. You won't find the variety that you can expect in London or NYC, but all the local and German-wide food is broadly accessible to the typical Euro/American palate. Also some big traditional companies have a Mensa which serves home cooked style meals for lunch.

- Local education system is quite good.

- Multiple high quality unis which are very accessible to anyone. You can literally just visit a lecture. Don't even need to be a student.

- A non-Anglonized culture that is just different from what you are used to in terms of mentality and attitude.

Cons:

- Job market is more traditional. Fewer startups and fewer companies working with cutting-edge technology.

- Corporate culture is less egalitarian than in international tech companies. Tech workers are valued less. There are also various glass ceilings.

- Society is more insular. Its quite hard to break into established professional or social circle.

- Taxes are absurdly high and you get very little in return if you are a normal working adult.

- Healthcare is also expensive and dysfunctional (I am comparing here to other EU countries). Also lots of quack medicine everywhere.

- The decentralized nature of Germany is really annoying. You come across a cool job but it is located in some 40k pop city, 1.5 hrs away from the nearest "big" city. This forces you to relocate every time for a new job and living in those tiny cities is not enjoyable if you expect any level of social life.

- Munich has a housing crisis. It usually takes months to find any kind of accommodation. At the same time it is one of the only decent cities for tech job opportunities.

- There are lots of foreigners in Germany, but it is not an immigrant culture. It is kind of annoying to witness and experience the divide between the various demographics.

- Despite a facade of progressiveness the level of discrimination against women and foreigners is much higher and more blatant than you would be used to if you come from the US/UK. At the same time there is a very annoying affirmative action that promotes women in tech that is very much in your face.

- Since firing people is harder there is barely any job market for juniors because it is considered too high risk to hire them even though there is a 6-month probation.

Las Vegas

Pros: LCOL, great scenery, good food.

Cons: July.

Buffalo, NY - Not a usual place for a SWE in the US to end up, but I picked it for the culture, climate and COL. I'm thankful for remote work to make this choice possible.

Pros: Snow. Greenery. Great Lakes. Climate change safety. Rust-belt esthetic. Great food scene. Friendly people. Low COL. Well located to explore North America.

Cons: Miss shopping amenities from tier 1 cities. But, Toronto is a short 1.5 hr drive away.

Nairobi

Pros: Excellent weather (not as hot as coastal towns, not as cold as places in higher latitudes. Cost of living is not too bad if you can get a job paying international pay scales. Several game parks within couple of hours drive of the city.

Cons: difficult to get said nicer jobs. There is not as much to do as in much larger cities. Imports (electronic devices, cars, etc) are quite expensive due to high taxation and deteriorating exchange rate. Inflation is high, but hey, that's happening everywhere.

Buenos Aires, Argentina

Pros:

- If you earn in Dollars a US or Europe wage, it's going to be a very cheap place for you.

- Amazing food, I couldn't live without Argentinian pizza or ice cream

- Truly the city that never sleeps; if you are hungry at 3AM you can probably find somewhere decent to eat (except maybe in more suburb/residential areas). Same if you want to go to a nightclub a Tuesday.

- Great and cheap public transportation 24/7

- The people in Argentina in my experience (I might be biased since I'm from Argentina) are much more laid back and friendly than anywhere else, it's probably easier to make friends here than in Europe or USA.

- Argentina is a *very* centralized country, it sucks if you live outside of Buenos Aires, but if you live here pretty much everything is in the city: tech conferences, concerts, universities, transport, anything bureaucratic or medical, etc. which means that you are pretty much 1 bus or subway away from any major event.

- I know many fellow Argentinians will disagree but Buenos Aires is probably one of the safest cities in Latin America, and it's pretty safe overall. In a more personal take, in around 4 years of living here I've never had any sort of issue not even with pickpocketing, and I sometimes walk home in the wee hours.

- Progressive and LGTB friendly.

- Weather is (usually) nice and it's not too cold, read the cons.

Cons:

- Whilst there is a tech scene, I don't think there are many interesting tech companies to work here, there are a few but not that many and they mostly are in the fintech industry or similar. If you want to work in Embedded, Systems, Biotech, etc. anything remotely "niche" you are going to have tough luck looking for a job set in Argentina, you can always remote to outside, if possible, obviously.

- I think it gets a bit too hot during the summer months specially these past few years, and it's not uncommon to have power outages during the summer.

- I don't think the city is very aesthetic, whilst there is some great architecture, sometimes garbage piles up in the streets, sometimes it floods when it rains, there's people living in the streets, etc. We are far from being the Netherlands.

- The usual political and economic instability that comes from living in Argentina; you won't suffer most of this if you earn in USD and you'll probably live like a king... but it's hard to ignore if you have family or friends going through tough times.

- The areas outside of Buenos Aires City are not that nice and not that safe, though if you move in car, uber or know where you're going you'll be okay. (I mean in the Greater Buenos Aires area, I'm not saying there aren't any other nice places in Argentina(.

Glad to take any questions!

> We are far from being the Netherlands.

Queen Máxima of the Netherlands is from Argentina, as I'm sure you're aware. So maybe not so far in some regards...

Buenos Aires does appeal to me as perhaps a periodic place to spend several months, and I assume there are some good salsa, bachata, and kizomba dance communities.

Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA:

Quick orientation for those not familiar: Cambridge is a city of about 100,000 people just across the Charles River from Boston. It's best known as the seat of Harvard and MIT. It's also the birthplace of the US Army, which is pretty funny if you are familiar with modern Cambridge.

Pros:

  * Lots of smart and/or well-educated people everywhere, and they're not all software nerds. They're nerds of all fields and all esoteric subspecialties.

  * To use the technical term, Greater Boston is polynucleated. In contrast to some other American cities, where all the "stuff" is concentrated in a small downtown and density drops off quickly from there to suburbia and then cows, there are tiny quasi-"downtown" areas all throughout the various cities and towns, each with its own attractions and amenities and its own distinct character. Related:

  * You can do most of what you need to do by walking. I've read that the Boston area in general and Cambridge in particular have (or at least pre-COVID had) the USA's highest percentage of people who commute to work on foot, and I can believe that.

  * Lots of good venues for live music, mostly with pretty reasonable ticket prices.

  * NYC is a quick and easy train ride away, and Europe is a (relatively) short flight. I haven't ever been to Montreal but people tell me it's also easy to get to from here and worth a visit. South Station and Logan Airport both work reasonably well.

  * If you have health problems, you have your pick of some of the world's best hospitals. If they can't cure it in Boston they probably can't cure it, period.

  * I'm told if you like outdoor activities or professional sports there are plenty of good options.

  * Weed's legal. And cheap. Could be a little better quality, but, again, legal. And cheap.

  * It's a pretty progressive place (first legal same-sex marriage in the USA was done at Cambridge City Hall), though not as much as they like to give themselves credit for.

  * A lot of the area is a very pleasant urban landscape in a homey, lived-in kind of way. This is some of the most densely populated land in the USA but it doesn't feel like it. People still find space for gardens, you see rabbits and wild turkeys all the time and sometimes coyotes, and the streets are well sheltered with trees.

  * Strong fitness culture, which I consider a positive influence because it gets people to take better care of their health.

Cons:

  * It's expensive overall, housing in particular is ridiculous.

  * Speaking of housing, a lot of it is old and beat-up. If you move here it pays to acquire some basic tools and learn how to use them.

  * Bad weather most of the year. If you come from a warm place, the winters will take some getting used to.

  * Even though distances between points of interest are small compared to western states, both traffic and public transit are notoriously bad, so it's hard to get around. There's significant hope for transit to improve but that's going to take several years in the best case and it is far from certain to happen.

  * Something like 1/3 of the population are students, who all move here in the same two or three weekends in September. It's actually a pretty entertaining spectacle as long as you personally don't have to go anywhere or do anything. Also students means a certain level of drunken jackassery especially right before their holidays.

  * Harvard and MIT have an immense amount of influence here and their interests are not always in line with the general public's.

I've been here a long time now and I like it, at least, I wouldn't move away without a strong reason. It's not for everyone, but then, that's true of all the places you'll read about in this thread.

Denver, Colorado

Pros: Beautiful seasons. Very easy to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Unlimited outdoor activities available. Fairly progressive, with a libertarian streak. Lots of people from elsewhere, easy to make friends. Lots of outgoing people, easy to chat people up. Weather is really awesome to behold (50F+ temperature swings in a single day are not unheard of). Plenty of jobs. Cost of living is going up, but not as outrageous as California or big East Coast cities. Living in Denver at altitude is a great way to crosstrain - when I go on vacation to cities at sea level, I feel like I have unlimited energy

Cons: The winter can suck for weeks at a time. Not as bad as the Midwest or East Coast from what I hear. I hate the 430PM sunset, but this is common across much of the US in the winter. The food scene is terrible, although slowly improving. Very little diversity, there are thousands of carbon-copy 20-something tech bro/ski bums wandering around cluelessly. Bland culture - bring your own.

Munich, Germany

Pros: A lot more green areas than Berlin, Englischer Garten puts Central Park to shame. Probably the safest city in Germany, and definitely top 10 safest cities in Europe if not in the world.

Alps are easily within reach, lots of hiking areas that are safe and clean, but you have to plan those trips ahead, you can't just wake up at 10 AM on a Saturday and decide "I'm going on a hike in 2 hours", in some other places like New York State that is more doable.

People will mostly leave you alone, which is great if you're an introvert.

Cons: Rent: It's very hard to find a place to rent unless you know someone. When I first came here I was lucky enough to take over the apartment of a friend of mine who happened to be doing his MSc here. Then my second apartment we found through my gf's PhD. Without luck and just looking at the usual apps one looks for apartments I would have easily paid 400 EUR more on rent a month, which is just disgusting.

Social life: Your mileage may vary, I'm at an age where it's hard to make new friends and to be honest the drive isn't there either. Loneliness will still be a potential problem especially if you're a guy.

Public transport: It is a joke, trains are always late, or cancelled. I actively avoid the S-bahn at all costs and would rather switch 3 U-bahn trains than have to depend on a single S-Bahn train.

Food: German cuisine is not that great, kind of unhealthy, not even aromatically diverse, restaurant choices get boring quick. Not very accommodating if you're lactose intolerant, a lot of Germans seem to be completely unaware that it's a thing. I mostly gave up eating out and mainly cook at home. Thankfully that's also a cheaper option but depending on what you're making it can take a lot of time, but you can learn to optimize. Eg I prefer to cook one big pot of stew that I'm gonna eat from for 4-5 days, then it's okay if I spend 3 hours making it.

Neutral/Meh: Job Market: Half the jobs in IT require you to speak German, so as an expat you'll probably be at a disadvantage there. If I'm job hunting I will throw my CV at 200 companies and 20 will come back to me wanting to talk, and maybe I'll get 7 offers in the end of a tiring process. If you're aiming for a 6 figure salary you're going to have a tough time negotiating, a lot of companies seem to not want to budge over 80K a year, you'll have better luck at startups since they understand there's more inherent risk involved there, but if you're good enough and willing to just not settle for anything less than exactly what you want, and are able to play the long game, it's only a question of time.

Personally I prefer working in as diverse a workplace as possible, German work culture is meh, people don't really make friends at work, and you'll be looked at as a weirdo if you even try. Another reason that I've been gravitating more towards startups nowadays where the atmosphere is much more relaxed.

Final remarks: Would I see myself living here for the next 5-7 years? Yeah sure why not. Raising kids here? Maybe. I feel very relaxed most days and I know how to keep myself busy and make my own life interesting.

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