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Comment by yieldcrv | Hacker News Reader

A lot of people are looking for an all controlling force in the country or world

instead, I see a lot of demigods that rule their domain, curating complete autonomy as long as they stay within the confines they finessed

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Anybody working in University IT can attest to this :-)

Anybody who has to work with University IT can also :)

So anyone who works in universities sees and experiences bureaucracy.

Let’s strike a committee to study it until it’s forgotten.

You mean to say that no one is running the world, not even behind the scenes, or even behind behind the scenes? You are leaving us without anyone to blame! Daring I must say.

funny, but another thing I think people miss is that there are opportunists for every outcome

think your controversial head of state is being controlled by their buddies from university that run some private equity funds

well so would the other head of state if they won the election! different buddies

its more like if you dont also have a plan for outsized influence, then thats the biggest outlier and inefficient way of navigating the system we have

Certainly not a way to get clicks. People are eager to see patterns—it’s in our wetware. For example: two podcasts about JFK: one is about a lone gunman, the other a secret conspiracy and coverup. Which will be more interesting? Get more of an audience?

Consider “Oswald: the man who took on the United States Secret Service, and won”. I'm not particularly interested in US history, but I think I'd find this much more interesting than yet another conspiracy podcast.

You don't need a formal conspiracy when you have an elite with converging interests.

There's a joke from a comedian I forget if it is L̶o̶u̶i̶s̶ ̶C̶K̶ George Carlin o̶r̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶. But basically is along the lines that you don't have explicitly collude when you all come from the same backgrounds. The interests are aligned already. It's pointing out that representatives need to actually be from representative populations of people. But he did it in a funny way, this comment really isn't.

Edit: thanks lo_zamoyski. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs

If you want to read about how the media is also roped into these incentive structures, read Manufacturing Consent by Herman and Chomsky.

There's no P in Chomsky, FYI.

Thanks, fixed.

Lots of corrections in this thread chain haha. It's actually a delight to see a chain of "ops, thanks" and no one fighting.

George Carlin, and he wasn't joking. This was a point he made during an interview in all seriousness.

That was it thank! Updated my post

If only the middle and lower class could do that. But they argue amongst each other over the relative scraps. Even arguing what a "middle class" is these days.

Might be the comedian Avram Chomsky.

Yes I basically took verbatim what George Carlin said because it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard.

I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny? It's a fairly serious description of the reality we live in.

> it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard.

It's actually how I often think of conspiracy. Not a bunch of men sitting in a room plotting together but a bunch of independent actors with convergent incentives. Also my litmus test for real bona fide conspiracy (Watergate or Contra Affair) vs crackpottery is if it can be boiled down to "wizards did it." It's always interesting that conspiracies work out to essentially making one feel safe in a world of all powerful but evil men rather than the discomfort of a chaotic world. Flat Earth stands out a bit because I still don't know who gains from it...

> I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny?

I didn't. I said Carlin was funny and that I was not. I honestly wasn't even aware you were referencing Carlin (at a direct level at least, since I did make the connection). It just reminded me of his statement (which now I understand as your intent. The subtle nod reference).

> It's always interesting that conspiracies work out to essentially making one feel safe in a world of all powerful but evil men rather than the discomfort of a chaotic world.

Hmm. Rather the comforting thought is in the mind of the so-called conspirators. Systemic theories about things like the Media (see mentioned Manufacturing Consent) get rejected as “conspiracies” because people (like in the Media) interpret it as saying that they, with full knowledge and intentionality are doing these things. Rather than that they are pawns in a larger system.

They are flattering themselves.

Conspiracies of the original kind do happen. Like the plot to kill Ceasar.

Of course, see my reference to Watergate and Contra Affairs. Would you not say those are real bona fide conspiracies of the original kind?

The litmus test is not about convergence, it is "wizards did it." Convergence is just a common kind of thing that crackpot conspiracies develop around. It's more rational when you understand convergence because crackpot conspiracy often is re-framed as a misinterpretation of the data.

Qualifiers are also important.

the world these days is becoming more and more medieval: many different actors, all competing with one another, at different levels of power.

Imo, it's a good thing: regular ppl will be more suspicious about power overall and not make as many bad safety/convenience trades.

Assuming people are educated and aware enough to begin with to recognize and then deal with it.

The right to read was literally only locked up a few hundred years ago.

these things are much more transparent than us experts like to think they are - people making "uneducated" decisions are often just making decisions that don't fall in line with the expectations of the "educated". Power is legible regardless of whether you know how to read or not (or code (or do immunological research)).

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