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Comment by underseacables | Hacker News Reader

Amazon seems like a really awful place to work, at the warehouse or at the corporate office. Why do people still work, and want to work, there?

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I worked there for 8 years (both retail and AWS) and loved it and never experienced a toxic environment. Consider that the anecdotes that are published by the media may not be representative of everyone's experiences.

AWS, like every company, is really the culture+ managers.

Some managers can deflect the culture enough for you to feel "loved".

Others can't. They embody the culture. The AWS culture really is that ruthless.

How often were your team members PIP'd -> fired and do you think it was deserved each time?

Have you ever thought that your experience may be anecdotal?

In the warehouses...well, nobody else is hiring those kinds of headcounts. And few of the people taking those jobs are in any position to be picky.

For the high-skill stuff...I'd say that social status is a big part of it, especially for the young. "I program computers at Amazon" gets instant recognition from everyone. Vs. "I program computers at {little company that treats its employees well}" gets "who's that?".

The mindset of a lot of engineers working at these companies is to stay a year or two, get the bonus, put it on their CV and get out.

Of course, this kind of staff turnover is terrible for the company, but they reap what they sow.

Sure.

But this precise story is unfortunately pretty common in any big company (worldwide).

As soon as the company starts to treat its workforce like a blob of anonymous replaceable "ressources" that you can scale up or down according to your finances, this starts to happen inevitably. Most of the time, they even manage to create enough layers in those process so that most of the people involved think they are not responsible and that they do the right thing.

You want to be able to fire thousands of employees for no reason so you have to find reasons, and all you know about them is some vague impression of their own management / team that is somehow translated into some arbitrary number and then you sort people by that. What could go wrong ?

The narrative on HN is almost always driven by negativity so I wouldn't presume that things posted here are representative of the actual working conditions at corporate, or exclusive to Amazon.

Here's an alternative view that popped up in my feed yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IVdaysrIS74

Of, both things can be true you know? I worked there, left for various reason, don't regret my years there and even considered going back. Why? Because most other places, and I have seen quite a few, are similar, Amazon is just up front, hobest and open about it. And, even more important, they follow their own rules, meabing as an emoloyee I can play the game as well since the rules are kind of known. Most other places, there either are no rules, or they are used totally at will by management.

I prefer honesty, even or especially, when cruel, about being stabbed in the back by axe.

Money is a powerful motivator

Amazon pays less than local outsourcing companies in Eastern Europe.

Faang salary my arse.

Romania? That’s why companies go there and other distant countries. To pay below market rate with huge press support. I experienced it first hand from Continental and Hella. If I have the same job in Germany, I will get normal salary. If I take job in eastern branch, I will get 1/3 salary. And local companies offered me 1/2. Obviously I stayed in Germany.

Yup.

Faang salary only exists on the US. Even the richest countries in Europe don't have those salaries for programmers (maybe if you work on finance or some niche subject).

What numbers?

I haven't worked there, but I've seen salary reports online between 1.5k-2k euros for a senior, after taxes, per month.

Seniors hit about 4-5k eur in Poland. Poland is far worse than Germany tbh.

On average, I would say a senior would get between 3k and 4k euros in RO, at a regular company. It depends a lot on city too. In bucharest salaries should be higher.

Obviously Amazon thinks that mortages can be paid just by flexing their employee badge.

I was wrong, seniors hit 4.5k net base salary, L5s hit about 3.5k net base salary, and L4s about 2.5-2.7k net base.

high compensation for skilled workers, lack of options for the unskilled ones, probably.

This. For skilled workers, it's still a lot of money if you can't get a job at the other FAANG companies. In the few miserable years you'll be there, you can make a lot of progress towards buying/paying off a house, for instance. If you have a thick skin to not care about a PIP and just shrug off the nonsense, it might be a really good deal.

Immigration, money, CV.

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