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Comment by phpisthebest | Hacker News Reader

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Sorry, I don't think this kind of fear mongering propaganda works anymore. Say what you will about the younger generation, but I think they can see through this idea that funding Israel somehow protects them from theocracy at home.

There's a quote "Science progresses one funeral at a time" but it's also true for political progress too. We're never going to talk older people out of their political views, and unfortunately, we need to wait them out. The good news is that the demographics are undeniable--the popularity of their ideas will die with their generation, and we can finally move forward.

Israel is no longer some great vanguard against "Terror in the world". It is a strategically important ally, for sure, but its usefulness has been especially waning over the past 20 years. The behavior of the Israeli government and their military has been abhorrent, even in the wake of a horrible tragedy like 10/7.

In line with that: The Israeli government and its supporters have become so accustomed to unwavering American support that they have started to take actions with a sense of ill-deserved impunity. The /tantrum/ that the Israeli government and the IDF threw has eroded good will all over the world.

Based on its actions, recently and over decades, Israel is no longer seen as some unwavering force for good and right that it claims to be. The sooner Israel recognizes its increasingly precarious position of having unwavering western support, the better - both for itself, and the world.

Israel is a rich country, they don't need western support. In fact, western support is probably the only thing stopping them from straight genociding Palestinians. The day their western support ends is likely the day we see the largest humanitarian crisis in the history of the world begin.

> The idea that if Palestina was "free" would end the violence is a naive one

Maybe, but we have 50 years of experience with what doesn’t work. Trying to repeat the same thing over and over again is not just naive, it’s dumb.

2005 Israel pulled out of Gaza completely now it is true that there was still many restriction placed on the region but if the citizens of gaza would have tooken that time to build their internal infrastructure build actual schools build non-violent businesses etc Israel's continued isolation of the region would have been less accepted by the world.

Instead you have decades of rocket launches and using humanitarian aid to build terror networks and other things of that nature

To say we've done the same thing over 50 years is naive of the history of the region

Hamas in particular has shown that they're only goal is the elimination of the state of Israel they have no other goal

So my ongoing question to the people that believe that believe that there is a solution for peace in the region do you believe that the elimination of the state of Israel is on the table to obtain that peace

> So my ongoing question to the people that believe that believe that there is a solution for peace in the region do you believe that the elimination of the state of Israel is on the table to obtain that peace

Just, leaving and stopping the wonkyness on the west bank would go a long way I think. Stop blockading it, stop faffing around. Recognize the microstate of Palestina. Invade the whole shizzle and actively police it (Iraq style).

Like, literally anything but turtle up and airstrikes. Yes, you are saving the lives of your soldiers that way, but you are not making the problem go away, just making it worse.

What you need is for the people in the region to believe that having Hamas is worse than having Israel. I’m fairly certain literally everyone in the Gaza strip has lost people to Israel. Never mind that that happened because they were sitting on a stash of Hamas guns in a hospital. Do you think that matters to the children that just lost their father? They’ll just keep hearing that it’s all Israel’s fault from literally everyone around them their entire life.

Those kids must _want_ peace, and if you regularly keep bombarding and persecuting them that will always seem like a pipe dream, ergo, joining Hamas and at least getting back at those assholes seems like a viable option. Maybe you’ll die, but then, you might die just sitting in your house, lying in a hospital bed, or anywhere else, so what does it matter?

> The idea that if Palestinian was "free" would end the violence is a naive one, not would it result in freedom for the Palestinian people, it would instead be just another Authoritarian Theocracy in the same vein as Iran...

So we should forever oppress these people? Or what exactly is your solution here?

Here you would have to define what you believe oppression is because of late I don't believe that everyone agrees on what that term means anymore.

For example do you believe the American occupation of Afghanistan was oppressing the people of Afghanistan do you believe employing democracy and allowing women to get an education and not be property at the hands of the Taliban is oppression

Do you believe the people of Afghanistan are better off today than they were with American military occupying the country

I find allowing an authoritarian theocratic government to reign in a region to be oppressive even if it is supported by the majority of the citizenry of that region

Indeed, there is some theocratic elements[0-2] in what drives the pogrom and extermination of a people through periodically “mowing the lawn” and sustained land theft at massive scale.

[0] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/john-hagee-hitl...

[1] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230605-the-israelis-...

[2] https://jewishcurrents.org/the-gops-plan-to-build-the-third-...

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