Are we subjecting ourselves to the sunk cost fallacy with Wayland? It's been "almost ready" for 6 or 7 years at this point.
For gnome's Mutter, it's 12 years:
> Until they sort their s*t out, which is unlikely, since there's been very little progress over the last decade, just keep it disabled.
Begging the question if Wayland itself is already antiquated and if its maintenance perspective is any better than X.org's. When lack of developer motivation to work on X.org appears to be the sole point of leaving it behind since new apps haven't been created and (Nvidia) drivers for Wayland may still be problematic.
I can totally understand the desire to start with a clean architecture, but chances are we have to basically start over at square one, with the problem of how to attract younger devs now who want to invest their time into newer languages and/or graphics pipelines rather than maintaining Wayland.
[0] https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Plasma/Wayland_Sho...
It will suffer the same same problems that Wayland has. the problem is that X is flawed at the design and level and whatever you propose that fix those design issues will face the same type of push-back from the communities that don't like it because it's not the way their grandpa taught them to do things.
keep in mind the wayland devs are the xorg devs that gave up on that project because how hopeless it was to fix things around.
Are we sure _this_ isn't the problem?
I made the mistake, I clicked the thread, and even replied. Meanwhile, I too have been using Wayland for years without issues. I'm on multiple video calls a day for work. I give screen share demos on Discord and Meet. Literally the only issue I've ever had was gamma ramp support, due to Nvidia, and they've even finally fixed that
Idk, see the Pipewire threads for more examples. And/or insert the link to the XKCD comic about the foot pedal. It's all so damn entitled too, from seeming OSS adjacent folks that apparently don't understand the first thing about OSS work. Those same people will never even acknowledge that "Wayland devs" ARE THE DAMN "X11 devs" and they've all declared X11 bankrupt. Buncha people here need to start ramping up on their non-XWayland X11 codebase knowledge if they think they're going to go the MATE route or something.
I have some issues with it, but by no means they are deal-breaker, otherwise I'd have returned to Win10.
Most issues (that I've faced) are related to Hardware Acceleration, which, by my knowledge, is a common issue in Linux ecosystem; others are NVidia related, when playing games.
From my experience, overall: it's fine. (At least on KDE Plasma.)
Lots of people have lots of complaints. I, myself, have more than a few.
I'll go further. The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions.
The problem is that a GUI is such an enormous pile of work that nobody can arise to compete with QT and GTK. Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up.
And, it's worse than that globally. Mobile/Web GUI and Desktop GUI have fundamentally different abstractions. Yet, because a GUI is such a huge pile of code, nobody wants to have separate GUIs for Desktop and Mobile/Web.
This is why something like Electron exists. No one wants any of the dumbass GUI toolkits--not Windows, not macOS and certainly not Gtk or Qt.
And, yes, I pile Mobile and Web together. Most people now interact with Web via their phone. This is painful to me, but it is simply reality.
1) that doesn't happen on my compositor
2) You can solve that yourself or pay someone to solve it for you. Unless you have a contract, you are not entitled to anyone elses time.
> The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions.
I simply don't care. It works for me, better than anything else I've tried on any operating system. The fact that you disagree with Wayland abstractions has no impact on my real world use.
> [...] Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up.
Great idea, looking forward to your (contractors?) repo :-)
Could you elaborate on this?
The comparison to Qt, Gtk or Electron is also very wrong; it is an entirely different layer in the stack.
Scaling and overall performance it's night and day versus X11.
The last you setup in your DE and the first you use xkb as before. (Or at least that’s how I did it before)
Eu escrevo 5 línguas adequadamente.
J'écris cinq langues bien.
Escribo 5 idiomas correctamente.
Scrivo correttamente 5 lingue.
But I personally speak 5 languages (with very different levels) and writing gets a bit complicated.
For example I can write ∀ x ∈ ℕ: x > 1 → x² > 1, but not in wayland.
What? Since when linux auto-install drivers?
You get those with your kernel and mesa (except nvidia). There is no installation.
> Then of course what is now a running joke that Linux is unable to put my computer to sleep, so when I close the lid and open it again a few hours later, the battery is drained.
Windows has exactly the same problem. You can thank "Connected standby" (pushed by Microsoft) for that -- neither Linux, nor Windows puts computer to sleep. They ask the firmware to put the computer to sleep. If the firmware is buggy, here's your problem.
Distros that "work" have to pin and lock your X11 and kernels to get the magic combination.
Nvidia has been terrible for a while, and this is not Wayland specific.
My Intel and AMD laptops have worked great.
My SteamDeck is awesome.