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"From a privacy perspective it's not too bad - provided they delete their copy of the photo after the card is issued. This isn't any different from having the photo printed on the ID card, if you ask me."

If you have a government ID they already have your picture in a database. I know for a fact this is true if you have a US passport and I would be shocked if each state doesn't have a database with all Drivers License/state ID pictures.

I can get my license reissued with my old photo as long as it’s within X number of years. This was handy during COVID when renewing entirely by mail was rolled out, but I also did it on a prior license renewal as well.

I’m generally opposed to government intrusion on rights, but I don’t think I have the inherent right for the government to have no photos of me. I’m sure the Dept of State, Customs/Border Patrol, and my local motor vehicles dept has my photo on file.

>> I don’t think I have the inherent right for the government to have no photos of me.

Why? The government should have no info on you at all unless and until they have an articulable reason to suspect you to be in violation of the law. Then they should only be allowed to retain data about for the duration of your criminal history (which could be for life )

Customs and Border patrol should not even be allowed to ask you any questions or stop you at all upon reentry to the country unless again they have a clear and articulable reason to believe you are in violation for the law

same with the TSA.

the fact that we have allowed general "detainment" in the name of safety was the start of the slippery slope that they continue to advance further and further to more or less cancel all 4th and 5th amendment protections to the point now where those protections basically do not exist with in a 100 miles of any border which is like 80% of the nation.

it is absurd to simply accept this as normal, and inline with individual freedom. it is not

> The government should have no info on you at all ...

Are you meaning for citizens of the country, or visitors to the country?

If you're meaning for citizens... um... how would the government know you're a citizen if it has no records of you? Ditto for knowing who to collect tax from, although a Good-and-Services-Tax could remove that particular need. ;)

You hit the nail on the head.. I dont find income based taxation to be ethical at all, and believe either a Land Use tax, Service fees, or contextual public finance is a better way, not stealing a part of a persons labor.

I also see government as only being needed for "night watchman" status, not as providers of all your needs from craddle to grave, under such a system of governance visitors to the nation are no different than citizens, as everyone is equal before the law, and the law is only used for peaceful dispute resolution between 2 parties. Not to dole out political based favors via an ever increasing state via both government contracts to big business, and government subsides to protect business, and social welfare which also is a handout to large business..

Once that state has no power to redistribute wealth (often from the poor to the rich in practice not in the manner many democrats envision the redistribution is going in their fantasy) then the need to track every dollar, and every person drops to near zero

Smash the State, Eat the Rich[1]

[1]https://c4ss.org/content/30085

> Customs and Border patrol should not even be allowed to ask you any questions or stop you at all upon reentry to the country unless again they have a clear and articulable reason to believe you are in violation for the law

> same with the TSA.

> the fact that we have allowed general "detainment" in the name of safety was the start of the slippery slope that they continue to advance further and further to more or less cancel all 4th and 5th amendment protections to the point now where those protections basically do not exist with in a 100 miles of any border which is like 80% of the nation.

I agree with all that, but I still don't see how that leads to your claim.

> Why? The government should have no info on you at all unless and until they have an articulable reason to suspect you to be in violation of the law. Then they should only be allowed to retain data about for the duration of your criminal history (which could be for life )

Why? It's normal for other people to remember what you look like, it's normal for your local government workers (who are likely the only ones for whom it matters) to remember what you look like, what people look like isn't secret.

I think the issue here is that it is both reasonable for the government to have a photo to facilitate some services, and also extremely dangerous for a centralized database to exist due to the kinds of surveillance this enables.

If we could be certain that the collected photos would be used only for the specific uses cases deemed necessary and acceptable, and never for the purpose of enabling new forms of surveillance, then it seems reasonable for the government to have this info.

But I don’t think that’s the reality. Or at least there aren’t checks and balances in place that I’m aware of that ensure the collected photos are not used for other purposes. It’s ultimately a problem of trust, and trust has been deeply eroded.

I disagree with the customs and border comment. I think a nation has a right to know who is entering the country. Otherwise you just have open borders. In addition other countries want to know who you are. So you need a passport

> Customs and Border patrol should not even be allowed to ask you any questions or stop you at all upon reentry to the country unless again they have a clear and articulable reason to believe you are in violation for the law

I believe that CBP has an entirely valid reason to stop me and ask me questions as needed to validate my identity, that it’s legal for me to enter the country, to determine I’m not importing anything improper, or if I owe duty on goods I’m importing.

I understand that others are in favor of open borders. The country I live in and the countries I visit appear to not be.

I just went and got my license renewed in my home state while I’m living overseas. The last time I had a license photo taken there, I was maybe 17. The clerk made sure to turn the screen around so we could both laugh at my old photo, so at least they keep them in one state.

The mass database with everyone's pictures in it is called the DMV. It was created decades ago; we don't need to engage in speculation about what it "would" do.

There is not a single DMV. Every state has its own DMV with its own database.

Yes, and many of those DMVs share those photos with upstream agencies, which reduces the problem.

My DMV literally sells the data to whoever.

TSA presumably can narrow down the search space to the people with tickets at that airport for that day

My concerns here are not about the search cost, but about holding everyone's data.

"And then there's obviously the issue that it simply cannot possibly work on a larger scale: with a 1:1 comparison you have to look for a close-enough match of a single picture pair, but with a 1:many comparison you have to identify one person out of millions of possible matches. "

... then they came for my doppelganger and there was no one to implicate me.

i should probably flesh out my reasoning more on this but i think we should preserve the ability for people to do wrong rather than trying to box it out. practically, it functions as a useful last resort of the system is very screwed up and we can probably punish noncompliance in other cases.

i think if we successfully remove the ability for people to break laws, regardless of whether it's done in a "privacy-preserving" way, that would be bad. but then again i'm against the feds knowing who anyone is so i'm probably biased.