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Comment by lsaferite | Hacker News Reader

Mandatory gratuity for a non-tipped employees should be 100% forbidden.

In the UK, where minimum wage is OK (not great, but OK), and we don’t have those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance, many payment terminals add a 10% tip automatically (especially at bars). Many restaurants also add a 10% tip to the bill (For everyone, not just parties of > 6).

I really wish it were outlawed. The price paid should be the price displayed, unless the circumstances are exceptional. You cannot display prices without VAT so how it is allowed to display prices without the forced tip?

“It’s optional”. Sure, if you enjoy having your food spat in the next time you return.

> those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance

Unless you're in California and some other states where there is "tipped" minimum wage and you get both a full wage and the tips.

And even in other states I got the impression that most (or at least many) waiter and other tipped stuff prefer the current system to getting the minimum wage and barely any tips

I haven’t lived in the US so I can’t really comment on the situation there. But my point is, the US model is infecting other countries which already have minimum wages and don’t suffer from problem tips in the US solve (AKA, insanely low minimum wages in some states for tipped servers).

Why should the minimum wage bartender at Brewdog get an automatic 10% tip when the minimum wage employee at Tesco doesn’t?

> wages and don’t suffer from problem tips in the US solve (AKA, insanely low minimum wages in some states for tipped servers).

Well many waiters earn considerably more than the minimum wage in the US. In large part because of this system. I'm not sure why does the society value their work that much (in relation to most other service workers which is of course unfair). However, essentially what you're advocating is lower wages for some service workers just because the rest are possibly overpaid?

in other countries, server is just a position like any other that has wage competition. a fancy restaurant will try and spend to get the high quality servers it wants.

> essentially what you're advocating is lower wages for some service workers just because the rest are possibly overpaid?

How have you arrived at that conclusion? I am arguing that a) the tip should be included in the price, and b) people should be paid a fair wage by their employer WITHOUT sneaking hidden fees onto customers.

Also, I’ve made it abundantly clear I’m referring to the UK, yet you keep bringing up America. You seem determined to misunderstand me.

Most fun are those places where you need to order via the website or an app and still have this automatic tip that's a pain to opt out off

That is the law in the entire US. You have to receive a normal minimum wage if your tips don't bring you to that level on the lower tip worker's wage.

You're right, but he's talking about states where tipped employees receive the same minimum wage, paid by the employer, as anyone else plus tips. See my comment / question about how this works out in practice.

[Edited because I find the terminology of "tipped minimum" confusing.]

Regarding the "tipped minimum" vs. full wage and tips, I've been wondering for a while how this works out in practice, and I've yet to find an answer.

Like do waitresses in California, earning the full $15.50 minimum wage plus tips (and tipping is no less prevalent in California), really end up making 50%+ more money than waitresses in Massachusetts where employers can claim a $8.25 tip credit to cover more than half of the $15 tipped minimum?

Yes they do. So long as their employer isn't doing something illegal.

It’s universally 12.5% in London.

Who is a "tipped versus non-tipped employee"? I think for servers coming to your table it's actually spelled out in law, for everything else it's a social convention that businesses can try to shove in one direction.

It is a legal distinction. In most places there is a lower minimum wage for tipped employees. The law says what jobs qualify for the tipped minimum.

(Legally, they have to make up the difference if you didn't make enough in tips. But most servers make more than that via tips, which is why they often fight efforts to eliminate tipping.)

Also, wage theft is one of the most common things that happens to restaurant workers, because a lot of employers try to avoid making up the difference.

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