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Comment by block_dagger | Hacker News Reader

I think you have encountered some projects built by undisciplined teams. That is not a reflection on the framework, rather a reflection on the people improperly using it.

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while that's true and obviously you can avoid these problems with any framework with enough discipline, my point is that the community in general isn't disciplined.

I've repeatedly seen the same things over a 15+ year timespan.

Maybe people only need to hire you when they have problems, and the ones where things went well don't need your help?

The culture encourages a lack of discipline; indeed, high framework coupling is seen as the Rails way.

Framework coupling sure, but that has little to do with adding other random dependencies.

Also why would you be afraid of coupling to the framework? It's not like you're going to be able to change the framework after the project grows, anyway.

For all the complaints of slow tests, the Rails community is reluctant to decouple from the framework, which is the root cause of the issue. To me, that is lack of discipline: choosing the framework way (e.g. tribal identity) over engineering integrity.

It may be that slow tests are just easy to complain about, and there isn't much business value in doing that. Totally fine. But, other things come to mind: weird cottage industry of gems that did dubious things to speed up tests (and were prone to breaking), the skepticism around interactors, the hegemony of active record (the pattern). None of those are bad things, but they reinforced the fact that the technical values of the Rails community do not work for me.

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