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Comment by eternalban | Hacker News Reader

NYTimes is an instrument of the power elite. The content matter that is interesting (culture) and relatively benign is the product of the talent (and they can go elsewhere).

Politically, I personally would welcome the day that says RIP to NYT -- it would be hugely helpful in getting our political system back on the track. We desperately needed intelligent and critical oversight of the state during the past and current decade and NYTimes completely (willfully, imo) dropped the ball. (They completely lost all credibility post 9/11 in my eyes. Please show me the front page headline with pictures of the huge ("tens of thousands") anti-war demo in Washington D.C. prior to invasion of Iraq. We've all seen the one for Egyptians ...)

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I'm sure I'll be modded into oblivion for this, but, oh well.

I'm really curious, and not trying to be snarky: how old are you?

> how old are you?

Regardless of your stated intent, you should be aware that your query comes across as a subtle form of ad-hominum. Let's discuss "all that is fit to print" and not my white chest hair ..

Ad hominem.

It's not an ad hominem if your age has a relationship to your argument. It may or may not, we don't know because your interlocutor hasn't followed up.

It would still be ad hominem ("against the person"), just not a fallacious argument.

I feel like we have different definitions.

I was under the impression that ad hominem is about dragging irrelevant personal qualities into the debate.

For example: the topic is water quality. Joe Bloggs is troubled by the effects of pollutants in tap water.

Not an ad-hom: "He owns a company which manufactures tap water filters".

Ad-hom: "He's an atheist".

The meaning of ad-hominem is easy enough to lookup. Both your examples are ad-hom, one is less relevant than the other. In neither case are you addressing his argument rather attacking the speaker's motives or character. "How old are you?" is both snarky and ad-hom, moreover the questioner knew he was being snarky.

> how old are you? The great thing about this rhetorical device is that it is both a fallacious and non-fallacious ad hominem. Asking the persons age is a legitimate question given the question of how important NYT is to public life. It's also a legitimate dig. "Ah. I see what you've done here."

This very well may be true, and I'm not arguing that the NYT is a benevolent force (although I might argue that it's more benevolent than most of its competitors, but that's not relevant here). Only that it's very important and influential. One way of arguing for my claim from this worldview would be that the NYT is obstructing systemic change and preserving an elite. Any one company whose demise would be "hugely helpful in getting our political system back on the track" must be important, right? Would Facebook (not social networks in general, mind you) closing hugely affect our political system?

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