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Comment by ForkMeOnTinder | Hacker News Reader

A bank freezing your account doesn't mean you've done something illegal. It means you've been caught in a bureaucratic machine that cares nothing for human outcomes.[1] If a bank tells me I can't move my legally-obtained money, and I have the power to say "screw the bureaucratic machine" and transact anyway, that's a win for society.

> An unregulated, distributed transfer of value system is unable to coexist with nation state regulations and desires to control the currency.

You mean cash? Bitcoin is no more or less illegal than cash. In either case, follow the laws, pay your taxes, and you'll be fine. I'd rather deal with the IRS directly than argue over the phone with a customer service representative from Chase.

[1]: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/

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> You mean cash? Bitcoin is no more or less illegal than cash.

As I mentioned, cash has reporting requirements above small amounts ("except in small fiat amounts under cash reporting limits") [1]. Chainalysis exists as a business to provide reporting to governments for crypto transfers [2].

[1] https://www.fdic.gov/news/financial-institution-letters/2021...

[2] https://www.chainalysis.com/regulators/

I paid for my car in cash, and nobody batted an eye. Car dealerships are not subject to banking regulations, only banks are. I don't know why people think that would suddenly change once bitcoin gets involved.

Governments pay companies to investigate people breaking the law with both cash and bitcoin. Cash and bitcoin are both coexisting just fine with existing financial regulations.

> I paid for my car in cash, and nobody batted an eye. Car dealerships are not subject to banking regulations, only banks are. I don't know why people think that would suddenly change once bitcoin gets involved.

I am only commenting to warn others, as this is absolutely not true, and you have a dangerous misunderstanding of financial regulations. You would not be told if a report was filed, to do so is illegal.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8300.pdf

> Generally, any person in a trade or business who receives more than $10,000 in cash in a single transaction or related transactions must complete a Form 8300, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or BusinessPDF. Form 8300 is a joint form issued by the IRS and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) and is used by the government to track individuals that evade taxes and those who profit from criminal activities. Although the cash reporting requirements apply to many types of businesses, auto dealerships frequently receive cash in excess of $10,000 and are required to comply with the filing requirements.

> Penalties. You may be subject to penalties if you fail to file a correct and complete Form 8300 on time and you cannot show that the failure was due to reasonable cause. You may also be subject to penalties if you fail to furnish timely a correct and complete statement to each person named in a required report. A minimum penalty of $25,000 may be imposed if the failure is due to an intentional or willful disregard of the cash reporting requirements.

> Penalties may also be imposed for causing, or attempting to cause, a trade or business to fail to file a required report; for causing, or attempting to cause, a trade or business to file a required report containing a material omission or misstatement of fact; or for structuring, or attempting to structure, transactions to avoid the reporting requirements. These violations may also be subject to criminal prosecution which, upon conviction, may result in imprisonment of up to 5 years or fines of up to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for corporations or both.

That is tax code, not a banking regulation, no? But on topic, nobody is preventing you from transacting with whatever quantity you want of your own cash. You just need to pinky promise to the government that you'll file the right forms with your taxes. Same as you would with bitcoin.

So again, why is cash able to "coexist with nation state regulations and desires to control the currency", but bitcoin isn't?

> That is tax code, not a banking regulation, no? But on topic, nobody is preventing you from transacting with whatever quantity you want of your own cash. You just need to pinky promise to the government that you'll file the right forms with your taxes. Same as you would with bitcoin.

It appears your argument is "I don't like the law." Good luck to you. Statute is clear on the topic. I have made my best effort attempt to educate.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A... ("§ 1.6050I-1 Returns relating to cash in excess of $10,000 received in a trade or business.")

https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/ba... ("Bank Secrecy Act")

> The Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act of 1970, its amendments, and the other statutes relating to the subject matter of that Act, have come to be referred to as the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA). The BSA authorizes the Department of the Treasury to impose reporting and other requirements on financial institutions and other businesses to help detect and prevent money laundering. Specifically, the regulations implementing the BSA require financial institutions to, among other things, keep records of cash purchases of negotiable instruments, file reports of cash transactions exceeding $10,000 (daily aggregate amount), and to report suspicious activity that might signify money laundering, tax evasion, or other criminal activities. The BSA is sometimes referred to as an "anti-money laundering" (AML) law or jointly as “BSA/AML,” and is codified at 12 U.S.C. 1829b, 12 U.S.C. 1951-1960, 31 U.S.C. 5311-5314, 5316-5336, and includes notes thereto.

> It appears your argument is "I don't like the law."

???

Read again:

> You mean cash? Bitcoin is no more or less illegal than cash. In either case, follow the laws, pay your taxes, and you'll be fine. I'd rather deal with the IRS directly than argue over the phone with a customer service representative from Chase.

It seems like you want to paint me as a criminal because I dared to use any currency other than USD, and then reported it on my taxes? If you're not able to engage with my questions directly instead of changing the subject, I'll assume you're not posting in HN's spirit of curiosity, and end the conversation here.

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