Comment by sublinear | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sublinear | Hacker News Reader

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> I’m constantly desperate to prove I’m not an idiot... in some sense it’s not a problem, quite the opposite. But in a few important ways, it is a problem. Every victory, every success is not my own. It’s a moment I share with an array of teachers who have likely forgotten I even exist. No victory motivated by spite is ever your own, you share it with those you are trying to prove wrong.

Other things mentioned in this blog posts are ADHD and "the format of traditional schooling". None of that inherently causes the spite described. It's more philosophical.

Scholasticism is found everywhere from religion to bootcamps to public schools. It lends itself well to institutions. It's about encouraging conformity and "training" people to perform a certain way in a role. The assumptions causing all this pain are oversimplified ones: the teacher is always right, agreeing with the "right" answers means you understand, and that knowing these answers means you're ready for "the real world".

I never felt spite towards these institutions because I was told by my parents from a young age that they merely represent collective agreements, not necessarily the truth. There may be plenty of overlap, but the incentives are completely different, so they eventually diverge. Institutions represent society, not the individual. To be happy with this is to just take it for what it is and let your faith lie in yourself and what you learn to appreciate on your own. Indeed most good teachers will also tell you to not take bad grades personally even if you still need to improve. There's a lot to admire about institutions and the results they deliver, but it's madness to pour your heart into them.

Parents are different. Reading sociology, it seems that those who got from blue-collar families to be white-collars their life, feel this isn't guaranteed and are obsessed with grades and extra-curricular training, like music.

Psychologists point out that a very frequent complaint is like this: "fix my kid. he wants nothing. codes on his computer/plays sports/reads that stupid scifi, dropped out from music/sports/drawing classes."

In fact, sociologist Bourdieau pointed out that lots of skills that help at school are inherited. E.g. you have a geographical atlas or map at home, and at school you easily perceive all the data in the geography class, whereas to others it's just like senseless magic speels to be learned by heart.

My personal observation is that parents who were born into white-collar and especially who saw this "social class panic" by their own parents, are much more relaxed about school and grades.

One imagines it's easier to relax when your performance at school won't have much of a material impact on your situation.

It usually does. But I think such parents have distorted perception. When parents were blue-collar kids, they studied at lower-grade schools, and with some persistence could get high grades. This allowed them to get to university and move up by social ladder. (Even though, there's been a trend that more % of people get higher education.)

And then they set much higher standard for school, sending children to where it's really hard to get all A-s, even though the kid performs pretty well, way above the nation average.

Interesting perspective, not something I'd considered but seems quite likely.

Many wise words here, especially about seeing dysfunctional institutions for what they are without taking it personally when your get your fingers crushed by the machine.

Unhealthy though bitterness is, it's sometimes an engine in great achievements. Roger Waters could not have written "The Wall" if his teachers had all been lovely.

Are they really dysfunctional though? If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional until something better comes along.

I feel like most bitter people lack the understanding to be that genius who makes a difference. Those who are usually conformed first and become a revolutionary later when they were ready.

What I tend to see are desperate people playing the lottery with their beliefs and just following whatever negativity is trending because it seems better than doing nothing. The vast majority of reddit is like this for example.

> Are they really dysfunctional though?

I believe they objectively are, yes. And for many reasons, all of which must be seen contextually in the frame of history. They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion.

Staffing levels of institutions has fallen. Spending on public institutions has fallen, and therefore the quality of personnel. Many have moved their functions into the private sector. Trust in institutions has fallen. Effectiveness of institutions has fallen. Many institutional buildings are decrepit. Morale is low.

Of course the strength of institutions rises and falls through history, and some transform or vanish completely. At one time the universities all but disappeared from Europe (save for strongholds in Paris, Bologna, Oxford and Cambridge), only to appear again, vibrant after the Middle Ages. I think they are going through a new crisis right now, one that originates within.

> If these institutions are the best we have, then by definition they are not dysfunctional

That logic seems wonky to me. Currently institutions don't meet the needs of a the complex society we have, and there are obvious consequences in poor or inequitable healthcare, education, policing, defence, environmental management...

FWIW I'm a big believer in strong public institutions and hope to see many restored to integrity, maybe even within my lifetime.

> They're not the best we've had, as a measurable fact or certainly a verifiable/pollable mass opinion.

I don't necessarily disagree, but "mass opinion" being lower could be due to standards changing. What exactly is your "measure" here for a "measurable fact"?

The world would not have needed The Wall if /all/ teachers had been lovely!

Well, I guess "The Wall" is about a few things; overbearing mothers, boarding school abuse, war trauma, fascism, loneliness and isolation, the purpose of art.

I think we can only pin _some_ of that on rotten teachers. :)

That album art image burned into most people's minds is Gerald Scarfe's scowling teacher - the one screaming "You.. behind the bike sheds...!!!!" Terrifying.

Sure, but you still had to sit in that classroom 7+ hours a day for over a decade to hear bullshit hawked by children to indoctrinate you into being an office/factory drone. If you didn't feel spite towards that you have a Buddha's level of perspective.

I feel bad for the myriad persons "diagnosed" with artificial conditions that would not exist in absentia of the system ... a fake light illuminating an image to identify with and thus increase "productivity" in this unnatural environment ... I choose to hold onto spite as a reminder of what has been taken from the majority , to behave otherwise requires apathy or delusion

"Madness and Civilization" by Foucault is one of the greats even though it's historically inaccurate.

That said we all have multiple roles with no guarantees they won't conflict. How that's resolved by an individual is their identity.

Roles are not a product of authority. It's the other way around. Taking on responsibilities is power. It's silly, but even simple household chores can be seen this way. My parents used to point out that their frustration with a dirty floor, beyond just being "my fault", also meant that I had power over their emotions and a demonstration of how we're all at the mercy of each other. Heavy stuff for an 8 year old. Sure expectations are the other side of it, but that's where bargaining comes in. They were fair to never expect me to be perfect, just good enough.

oh I've always loved looking backwards at the uncle ben great power = great responsibility adage

someone defined knowledge as wordly information made static and power as ability to exact influence on the world ... emotions (and knowledge) are merely a guide to behaviour which actualizes such power ... fuck your feelings of self resentment, I just got stabbed to death ... or conversely fuck your cowardice, you still saved my life

how can one claim responsibility when their mechanism to do so has been robbed by their environment? imagine being a kid whacked on stimulants before 10 and having all neuronal connections formed under a drug enriched environment?

I've done some exploration of the path you talk about here and above, thoughts like "...artificial conditions that would not exist in absentia of the system..." and I struggle to bring it back intact into my world with doesn't exist in absentia of systems.

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