Just saying, destroyed? Come on.
I linked two short documentaries in another comment, but basically:
tik tok kids don't adhere to safer drug use at all. Outfits and photos are not the worst thing. Overdoses are on a high. At the same time, looking out for each other is not something they tend to do. Especially at "illegal" raves, we have a very big problem of Gen Z not helping folks who feel unwell, leading to people dying on the floor. This is not a "the new generation is shit" argument. I despise tik tok ravers, not the gen z per se.
> There is a huge difference as well for lgbtq people at these places, the inclusivity has dramatically improved.
I don't understand where you're coming from. In Germany this was never a problem. Nobody gave a shit who you are and how you're dressed.
That is the total opposite to what is happening in German clubs
Kids these days may not need those scenes as much these days, since they're more open to people who are different. Much of the early rave scene was for people that didn't fit in, for whatever reason.
You'd wake up in a tree somewhere and everyone was friendly as hell. Volunteers would pick up afterwards.
Then a new mayor came in and ruined it all, locked it down, limited the area and basically killed the spirit of it.
I was younger sure but it was so much better. Applies to lots of things that get ruined.
Or is there some point where you think cohort "value in tradition" was different?
It's possible for them to believe that the techno/rave/DJ scene is worse now, and that other similar culture/social activities done now are not.
SF had many more fun venues when SOMA was underutilized industrial real estate available to promoters and artists. A counterculture needs cheap space.
A promoter friend told me after the first dot-com crash that half the twentysomethings had left SF and the other half were working their butts off to survive.
That might have happened in some particular scenes, but:
- the exact same thing kept on going, maybe shifted a bit to more underground things; I don't know what type of parties you are referring to, but the stuff I frequent has been using the same principle for a long time: it is often so that one cannot even see the DJ because they're covered in the decoration and/or the DJ is in the back of the place and people dance to the speakers in the front
- not all concerts are the same. I get what you mean about 'DJ in the spotlight' which is just somewhat saddening especially if they're just pushing some buttons or even faking it, but at least for me there is something about proper interaction between DJ or band and the crowd which I also really like. I have fond memories of small parties where we'd be going crazy in front of the DJ because they'd build this really nice story in the mix where we'd knew what was coming and they know we knew and that would lead to an even better feeling of togetherness. So even though they're in the front they'd actually be part of the crowd as well.
there's your problem, you're not there.
there are other things happening in the crowd. all you see are tall guys with the longest arms holding up their phones taking videos of other phones.
And there are areas in Berghain that are more like a sex/fetish club than a night club.
I've been to parties that have had signs on the bathroom banning acts that would make a vanilla person blush.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/11nll0r/my_gir...
The stickers you see on the walls could have accumulated over month. The system usually works fine and you rarely see anyone taking photos. Certainly way less than in clubs without those stickers.
Maybe the clubs could do something to make it a bad environment to make TikTok videos, like bombing the place with extremely bright flashing lights at a frequency that humans can’t see but that interferes with most phone cameras?
https://hackaday.com/2020/02/28/using-ir-leds-to-hide-in-pla...
That plus Faraday mesh in the walls could help.
Otherwise it’s a coin flip unless you’re clearly intoxicated, belligerent, etc.
Same as it ever was. You just didn’t recognize it because you were younger and in clubland youth is the only status currency that’s zero effort to acquire.
If you want to look into this more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauGLIefYrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk6wqKqygDw
watch with subs if needed.
Some fucking great times.
Fucked my hearing though, wear earplugs at the rave, kids.
There seems to be a psycho-social aspect to these generational agitations, whatever new thing the young ones bring will always be seen in the worst possible way by their elders in every generation.
Hardcore shows at squats still live on though, and people are there to enjoy for sure. But that's because if you don't like the music and setting you would leave pretty quickly.
I tend to think this kind of self-filtering system is more effective than bouncers at the door, but at the same time, consumers be consumin, and they glom onto faddy subcultures just long enough to completely hollow them out. There's arguments to be made for curating the spaces that art resides and thrives in.
If a genre, or ideal, "curates" to the next generation, is it even still that ideal? Is that not still just fading away, or at worst, selling out?
In my experience in the scene, these types of people enter these spaces looking to be seen and aren't really there for the music (think taking flash photos of themselves in front of the DJs, taking up space on the dancefloor not dancing or vibing to the music, etc).
I have strong opinions on this, but don't get me wrong, there's a bit of gatekeeping for a good reason. The point is that people who are actually interested in the scene are more likely to respect it and contribute to the involved communities. Whereas a tik-tok raver's interest is likely fleeting and uninformed about the spaces they occupy.
Don’t get me wrong, I still like those kind of partying as well from time to time, but treating an average rave as a dress up dancing is way too much work for me. Also underground scene pretty much everywhere in the world is extremely alive and doing well, but became so much more protective of itself for the same reason. Why would you go somewhere at 2am with a chance of overcrowding and being filmed, when you can go somewhere where you can dance till 6am, albeit only 60% of the fun?
I remember people at that time complaining that it was bullshit the DJ wasn't behind a curtain like the good ol days. Even being able to see the DJ made the party too much like a rock concert and "it was ruining the scene"
There was a whole era of conversation like this that was against spinning compact discs and cdjs. A real DJ spins vinyl. CDs sound too cold and sterile and they are "ruining the scene".
When people started spinning mp3s? lol, that was apocalyptic and totally "ruining the scene".
20 years from now there will be something new "ruining the scene" unlike the good old days when people put a lot of effort into their outfit and crafted videos to post on tiktok to try to promote "the scene".
Partygoers with cameras reduce this relationship to simple consumerism, largely consumption of content. The more passive attendees there are, the larger the pressure is on the venue to make or break the party. Tiktok ravers are just more egregious iteration of the thing.
And SF is in way worse shape.
Or I guess maybe you were referring to the value of their houses drop, in which case, probably, and I personally wouldn't be very troubled if I saw that.
Rich kids on Adderall who dream of startups and VC rounds do not qualify, no matter how much they pretend not to be finance jerk-offs in shorts and sandals, reality is not on the side of SF being the center of anything like this.
Any Rustbelt city has 100% more chances than SF and California in general.
I'd also argue that, by missing the boat (pun intended) on containerization and allowing the Port of Oakland to poach most of the shipping traffic, the city's original main economic engine shut down, and that the dotcom booms aside, SF's default mode for the past 60-70 years is "wretched hive of scum and villainy". The Summer of Love, the first counterculture to be called by that name, arose in Haight-Ashbury because the Haight was a slum at the time and a group of broke hippies could often band together to afford the rent on a house there.
Also if you look at my exact wording: I don't say it's going to happen, I say I would not be surprised to see it happen.
Clearly a culture worth preserving!
But yeah, we definitely complained about instagram a decade ago as well. Maybe we are getting old!
you guys can act nostalgic about $5 cover charges at farmhouses in the middle of the woods, but that stuff was objectively horrible. smoke filled, counterculture only people, dingy.
I love the crowd that comes to these $600 music festivals, they're sexy and maintain good jobs or wealth, good support systems, can talk deeply about many technical topics, second hand smoke is sparse, and the production value increased to match!
oh no, phones. like what? this didn't start post pandemic. you have a missing decade and I'm not even going to ask.
edit: saw some of your other comments on this topic, this category of person is a big matter of discussion in Germany it seems. I think its silly to just put Tik Tok as an adjective on everything you don't like because I see that in other fields too. There are certain behaviors it seems some people are doing that are different than the ones you highlighted.
> I think its silly to just put Tik Tok as an adjective on everything you don't like because I see that in other fields too. There are certain behaviors it seems some people are doing that are different than the ones you highlighted.
Well, I do because it's the only thing I can say something about. It's not a category I put on everyone I don't like but it's a term that's shared and quite clearly defined in a very narrow discussion about techno and the pandemic. It only partially relates to the overall tik tok consumerism discussion.