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Comment by permo-w | Hacker News Reader

who runs the ports? labour

Longshoreman unions have an infamous history throughout the world. Even in the USA they have lots of leverage to dictate against things like too much automation.

the point I'm making is that the people on the ground making these places operate are the people that should have that power, and the idea that the government - supposedly the collective of all people in a country - would stand in the way of that for the sake of some capital holders is bizarre

People should have rights sure, but letting unions run ports to the contrary interests of everyone else is not that. I don’t want longshoremen unions telling me what I can buy and not buy.

You can buy whatever you want, nobody is stopping you. It would be you telling them what work they must and must not do.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is because those in the US are so accustomed to the power dynamic between employer and employee being one of controller and controlled, respectively. That's pretty much all employment in the US.

If you can for a moment question that base assumption, and imagine a power dynamic in which both negotiation and normal operations is one of equals, then you may see how that dynamic would lead to different systems.

So you should force them to work for the interestbof everyone else. That's called slavery.

No. I would force competition though. Longshore men don’t want to unload a ship? Fine, they don’t have to work that day. Just hire people from the hall that will? No one wants to unload the ship? Ok, just let the robots do it.

And when you get sympathy strikes? That's how it works in Sweden and what Tesla is facing. First the harbors, then electricians and it'll eventually be the entire country if the don't sign. That's how our system works: solidarity.

Everyone has the right to strike. They don’t have a right to a monopoly in labor however.

Sure, capitalists are welcome to work too ;)

People (government folk) have the power to decide who gets to operate there. It’s a circle of trust called society.

There is no such thing as too much automation. Those dockworkers are just extracting an unfair tax, and inefficiently allocating the country’s labor.

AKA rent-seeking

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