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I’ll add the need to see the instrument gauge cluster, especially speed, through the steering wheel as is mostly/used to be standard and not have to look on the right at a stupid screen.

Edit: And, the ability to do minor fixes by myself (air filters, lights if they stop working, etc. nothing major) as well as ability to take it to any body shop if needed with quick turnaround. I shouldn’t have to take it to the dealer for every thing.

Not sure if the situation has improved but a while ago there were reports that Tesla were sitting in body shops for 6 months - 1 year due to lack of availability of parts.

If you live in the US in a state like CA you can already buy the KONA Electric and it should be available everywhere in limited quantities early '24. I can confirm that below the screen are physical buttons and knobs for everything outside of very specific settings you should only toggle while not driving.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/electrified/electric

I love my Tesla but I'm super happy to see viable alternatives appear on the market. I can't wait for everyone to realize the benefits of EVs and everything that comes with them.

My only concern is the quality of the offerings so far have mostly driven people away from EVs. The two biggest problems IMHO are charging and software. Hopefully charging issues will be a thing of the past soon as more and more cars adopt NACS. The software problem is a harder nut to crack. I think legacy auto makers are having a much more difficult time getting this right than some of the newer companies. I'm hopeful that Hyundai / Kia will get it right.

> I think legacy auto makers are having a much more difficult time getting this right than some of the newer companies. I'm hopeful that Hyundai / Kia will get it right.

I am of the opposite opinion -- I don't trust new tech-bro tier companies to get it right, esp. for something related to operational technology. simple car relay and control systems are now well known, and battery + traction control systems aren't rocket science, even with EVs. I don't want a fully networked cyber-car, I want a car with just enough to make it work well.

I’m of a different opinion than both of you - most of them are just ugly. More closed off wheel wells, grills, etc. The F150L is an exception. Taycan too. Not many more.

An M3 in which the only the difference is propulsion will instantly turn my head.

Hyundai and Kia are "tech-bro tier companies"? Just what is a "tech-bro" nowadays? I used to think it was someone who worked in tech just for the money, not caring about whether or not the underlying technology was interesting, or whether or not the technology had a deleterious effect on others. Now I'm not sure. I keep seeing the term used to vaguely describe "people in tech that I don't like."

Or the sister Niro. Pre 2023 had a nice set of physical buttons. Comes with ventilated seats too

>I'm not interested in owning a science experiment. I want something that has real buttons so I can use my muscle memory to push them without taking my eyes off the road.

Teslas are great in many ways, but the lack of physical controls are a gimmick to save money on production and materials. Same with those 'vegan' leather seats and fragile interiors.

The new ones don't have turn signal stalks or a gearshift lever. sigh.

I have both gray leather and white faux leather and I very much prefer the white in every way (touch, grip, appearance, clean ability)

Prior to this car I would never opt for the "vegan" option - I assume the quality varies dramatically from brand to brand, though

Seems like every car I spec out is now offering pleather. I assume we’ll see a lot more of this.

I want much the same as you, with the added aspect that I don't want the car to connect to a server somewhere.

The amount of data card and trucks have on their drivers and without control sends it away is absurd.

Saw a tag on the window for the Lighting describing how Ford owns all the data, you can’t do anything about it, and it’s on all their new vehicles.

Yeah, nah

What's holding me back, besides many of the things in this list, is the charging and repair infrastructure (e.g. garages that can fix EVs, supply chains that have parts on hand, etc). It just isn't built up enough in my area and likely will take decades. There are some chargers, just few and far between.

I would buy one today if I had somewhere to reliably and conveniently charge it.

I live in an apartment complex without charging infrastructure. Don’t want to drive to nearby charging station and wait/coordinate rides to and from. My place of work doesn’t have enough charging infrastructure to support demand.

We’ve just been plugging our Tesla into a standard 110v outlet. It’s working fine since my wife mainly just drives it around locally. (We are getting a L2 charger soon)

Do you live in an apartment complex? What's the home parking situation like?

we have a single family home. but the garage opening is too narrow for a Model Y, so we park in the driveway with the charging cable run under the garage door.

It’s… fine? Not perfect but also liveable for now.

We used to live in a condo and there were plenty of 110v outlets in the shared garage space we probably could have used.

The car drives much better than any gas car i’ve ever owned and we never go to the gas station. I wouldn’t go back to an ICE if I could avoid it.

Look at a used leaf. It checks all your boxes except range. Think carefully about how essential range actually is. If you dont drive more than 50 miles per day on weekdays, for instance, then it will be what you want as long as you have a second ICE vehicle around for long trips.

It isn't a total solution but it is an excelent option for <$10k from a dealer for something with <50k miles and ~70 miles range under realistic conditions. You can fully charge it overnight from a standard 120 wall socket. A 6.6 kW 220V charger can be had for ~$200. Being in the southern US and away from extremely low temperatures is also a plus.

and I'd add to that excellent list, not paying 10c for the doors to open, or any other always connected / subscription service nonsense. Why would I want to drive a car with a computer monitor in front of me, I have enough of that during the day :) My current solution is an old lemon with zero tech, and my next EV is going to be an eBike, hopefully solar charged.

That's the direction my little family is going. My wife just got a nice electric cargo bike, with a back seat for the kid, and I'll soon get a personal EV too, either a bike or a skateboard. Meanwhile, I ride the (electric) light rail and (electric) streetcar every day - with all of our regular travel already electrified, replacing our sturdy old low-annoyance gas-burner with a new electric car hardly seems like a priority.

Replying to my own post since the edit window has closed... There are some things about some EVs that I like.

On the Mach-E, I like the small LCD they use as a speedometer panel. I also like the door handles. The handles on the Model 3 & Y are also good. I like the instant torque of electric motors - it lets you take any holes in traffic. I like the Tesla charge connector - it's a much better design than CHAdeMO (well, almost anything is..) and the CCS/J1772 connector (so huge). And I like the styling of the IONIC 5 - I don't think it'll age well, but at least it isn't a jelly-bean CUV. I also like the idea of much fewer service visits that come with EV ownership.

What’s the deal with glass roofs? Are they cheaper for the auto mfg? Or are the mfgs just blindly copying Tesla? I do not want a glass roof. It seems stupid and pointless.

Blindly.

Even the Lucid sales guy admitted the car is not designed right yet.

Reflections of the dash in the window -always.

Glass roof? Always sun in your eyes.

> Always sun in your eyes

Never once yet in four years and 90,000 miles.

But I’m in another car with a glass roof, not a Lucid. Can’t speak to those, just can say that not all glass roofs are bad.

They do get you more headroom in the car. But downsides include annoying reflections, heat and cold (they aren't insulated), and should you be in a rollover accident - broken glass raining down on you (it's laminated but the inner glass will still shed some particles).

As to why everyone is installing them? They do look cool. And Tesla did it...

> they aren't insulated

Really? I don't care how much you crank the heat, on a -25F night that has to suck.

“seems” pointless yes. But they increase headroom by at least an inch if not 3-4 inches. For those who like that. YMMV.

As someone who knows nothing about cars, I'm trying to figure out why a glass roof would necessarily result in more headroom and can't find any more info. I've found other references to this stated as a given, but with no explanation. Surely you could just build a "normal roof" at the same height as a glass roof, right? Are normal roofs more than 3-4 inches thick and glass can be much thinner? Surely, say, sheet metal could be thinner and lighter than glass. Or is there some reason why it enables a different cab geometry with a greater height? I'm stumped.

On cars without a sunroof, you have the sheet metal roof, a small air gap, and then the headliner - somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4" of an inch. On cars with a tilt/slide sunroof (most of them) the mechanism takes up somewhere around 1.5 to 2 inches.

They are much easier and cheaper to install than the traditional multi-piece roof. The glass is a giant slab that’s glued on to the frame. Can be installed very quickly.

You are so, so right. You sound like a wise man, old or not.

Same. I'm waiting to trade in my fancy sports car for this basic ev.

I have a Tesla, I use the dedicated buttons on the steering wheel without taking my eyes off the road to operate radio and cruise, what else are you constantly changing that would require more buttons?

Air temperature, circulation, direction, vents used, seat heat, radio presets, music source, navigating infotainment menus.

My Volvo has heated seats behind a nested menu and I hate it. Tap the icon once, it brings up a submenu where you choose seat or wheel and then tap like 3 more times to set the actual temperature you want.

Beyond being annoying, it’s dangerous. I feel like there should some core functionality that should be illegal to not have a physical button.

It's especially sad for Volvo which used to pride itself on designing controls you could use with gloves on.

Aside from the usual complaints about safety, distraction, generally poor UI design and the rest, touchscreens are a huge fuck-you to people with peripheral nerve damage.

Also, it's 2023, nearly 2024, how are tablet displays still laggy by default?

Are any car companies actually pivoting back to tactile controls? Or is everyone going 100% in on screens?

Mazda. They've had dual input for a bit. Now they're fully going physical by ditching the touchscreen inputs. My Mazda 2020 technically has a touch screen, I've never had to actually use it

I loved Mazda for a long time, but the past few years they appear to believe they are a luxury brand, and are pricing accordingly. They are not a luxury brand, I’m on my third car purchase since owning a Mazda, and every single time I consider Mazda my reaction is “lol, no”

I would prefer a gearshift lever, and a turn signal stalk. and lights on/off/flash

(look at new model s/x)

Um, windshield wipers that don't auto adjust?

The voice controls are terrible, inaccurate and anyway you need to look at the console to see confirmation!

I heard a common complaint was wipers

Omg this! I drove a friends Tesla recently and it started raining on the freeway. Neither of us could figure out how to turn the windshield wipers on. My friend eventually dug through the touch screen menu enough to find them. Turned out they were set on 'auto', which apparently doesn't mean that they turn on automatically in the rain.

That was by far the scariest car situation I have been in for a while. If I had been alone in the car I never would have found the menu item while driving and could have easily crashed before pulling over.

Even after we found two ways to adjust the wipers it was still the worst interface I have ever seen for a safety critical car system.

The Model3 has a dedicated button for the windscreen wiper on the steering wheel, and then you can adjust with the scroll buttons. It certainly has a learning curve, and it would be better if you could rely on muscle memory for these things.

I usually spend a couple of minutes when I drive someone else's car to get familiar with the controls, as the rear window windscreen wiper, light controls (especially fog light) can be tricky on old cars as well.

I've driven I don't know how many dozens of cars in my lifetime and literally never had a problem finding safety critical controls outside of driving a Tesla. They took an issue that had been completely solved decades ago and created a problem for some combo of cost cutting and UX fad chasing.

I think the offset touch screen controls are categorically worse than traditional cars in many ways, but hiding the freaking windshield wipers is the worst of them.

What do you mean a dedicated button? What year did they introduce this?

The turn signal stalk has a button on the end. Small press activates the wiper. Large press cleans the window with washer fluid. Either press brings up the wiper menu on the screen to adjust frequency.

I love my model 3 but the wipers are by far the worst feature. The auto sensing is awful in light mist, there are not enough different intermittent settings, and changing the speed is a nightmare.

Yeah even once you know the controls driving through intermittent storms where you need to adjust the speed regularly is an abysmal experience.

So how do you turn on and adjust wipers in a Tesla?

Climate control is an important one imho

You don’t need to install a charger at home.

To elaborate, a 220 wall outlet will serve you just fine if you have a mobile charging cable that plugs into it.

These will sometimes come with your car, or can be easily bought.

An expensive one will run about US $200 but again you might already have one included with the car.

It should be used with an adapter for whatever outlet you have; there are a few kinds with different connector shapes.

Long story short, there’s no need to install anything, just plug in.

Also if you don't have 220, then 110, which is not as fast, will also work if you don’t have much of a commute.