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Comment by neilalexander | Hacker News Reader

Interestingly I ran into this exact problem with my work MacBook Pro M1 upgrading to Ventura 13.6 and assumed it was a totally isolated incident. I don't have a dual-boot setup either, just a single macOS install.

The computer was connected to a Thunderbolt Display during the update which I assume had the same effect of changing the refresh rate to something other-than-ProMotion that the linked article mentions. I had to do a DFU restore from another Mac and then run the macOS Sonoma installer from USB, which thankfully detected the existing install and did an in-place upgrade, preserving all of my data. Nothing else worked.

I also wasted far too much time trying to get the DFU restore to work before discovering that you cannot use a Thunderbolt cable — it has to be done using a plain USB-C cable, otherwise the Apple Configurator simply won't detect the other Mac.

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> I also wasted far too much time trying to get the DFU restore to work before discovering that you cannot use a Thunderbolt cable — it has to be done using a plain USB-C cable, otherwise the Apple Configurator simply won't detect the other Mac.

I would have expected a Thunderbolt cable to be required, if either was. This is quite surprising to me. Usually, the more capable (higher bandwidth) cable works if one isn’t supported. I’ll hope to remember this is I ever find myself reviving a bricked Mac in the future.

I've used a Thunderbolt cable as well successfully, but one note is that they're very picky about which port you use. On my Mac mini, I had to use the exact port outlined here or it did not show up: https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-configurator-mac/reviv...

Yes, this is absolutely key. Only one of the USB ports per machine supports this functionality.

It's done over USB 2.0 largely because that's simpler than involving newer and faster specs, and partly because that's how the original iPhone did it.

My understanding is that all complaint USB USB-C cables should work for USB 2.0, even USB4/TB4 cables, but active TB3 cables might not hook up the USB 2.0 pins.

From Apple’s support page on how to revive or restore after a failed upgrade [1]:

> A supported USB-C to USB-C charge cable, such as the one sold by Apple (may not be available in all countries or regions) or a supported USB-A to USB-C cable

> The USB-C cable must support both power and data. Thunderbolt 3 cables aren’t supported.

[1] https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-configurator-mac/reviv...

I am currently restoring an MBP using Configurator and a thunderbolt cable. You definitely can use one, perhaps your TB cable is buggered ?

I restored my Macbook just one hour ago with crappy USB-C USB-A cable, god bless the libimobiledevice creator.

Also what's with the magic trick of entering DFU mode by pressing the buttons at a very specific time for a very specific number of seconds? Felt like singing a song to some fictional Mac OS gods and hoping for the stars to align for the laptop to show up in the second Mac. Ah, also the port you use for the USB-C cable matters!! Has to be the first from the left? But why?

Anw, I followed a video by Mr. Macintosh and managed to get mine up and running, whew.

Well it’s a mode you really don’t want users going into if they didn’t intend to, so it kind of makes sense to only activate if the user has deliberately done an action that would not happen randomly.

See Also: entering bootloader mode in android devices

ya - I cant update my m1 macbook air without going into DFU mode and using configurator to “revive” my macbook. Otherwise it just tells me “Failed to personalize the software update”. Made the mistake of going to the Apple Store where they promptly restored my machine deleting all my data - only to encounter the exact same issue when the next update is shipped. This way you cant even show them that their fix did not actually fixed it permanently.

Also with the M1 Pro MacBook, my LG USB-C monitor broke during the upgrade. Black screen, same on another connected USB-C laptop. Tried different cables, unplugging power from the monitor and factory reset on the monitor, no luck. Other inputs like HDMI and DisplayPort still work. I don't think the breakage during the upgrade is a coincidence.

I would really advise against having anything connected to the Macbook during upgrades, except the charger...

The exact same thing happened to me (M2 Pro) and I had to take the exact same steps to fix it! Thankfully my data was also intact after the DFU revival, but I also thought it was an isolated incident—that maybe the battery ran dry before the update finished and something got corrupted. But my spare monitor must've been the culprit.

I've done this several times with a TB3 cable. Has to be the right port for DFU.

Exact same thing happened to me.

What kind of HW?

same specs as OP

This is depressing. They clearly have they ability ($$$) to do the required amount of manual QA, but don't. Or there was QA and someone decided that your case still wasn't enough to hold up the release.

In my mind, when we pay that ridiculous Apple premium on RAM and storage, we pay for excellent quality in SW/HW. They also need to deliver that quality.

Or they did QA but just happened to miss this issue. Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug, I'm betting Apple is among them.

Apple still hasn't put up any official page about the issue though, nor does it appear they've pulled the update. Even if it missed QA, why haven't they made any official comment?

You clearly don't know Apple as a company. Last most big companies, they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products (unless forced to by large scale fiascos) because that would damage their perfect brand image. It's why they have comments disabled on all their social media accounts.

Google this week seems to be going through a similar bug on their flagship Android 14 release, affecting users who have multiple accounts set up. They also seem to be favoring a "minimal" strategy when it comes to PR communication surrounding this issue.

Okay?

> they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products

Of course they do. They’re just secretive in general, and keep communications edited. Compared to the word salad of modern companies on social media, I find it refreshing. Just fix the problem, issue replacements for those affected and move on quietly.

>Of course they do.

Where? Do you have any examples?

> Where? Do you have any examples?

The whole battery gate saga. Touch Bar. The 2013 Mac Pro [1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-fai...

Yeah but that only proves my original point that Apple only admits mistakes when the public scandals are so violent it can't possibly deny them anymore as the shit pile broomed under the carped has grown so large it makes even them trip on it, so then they just enter damage control mode and PR recovery but not out of the kindness of their heart but because of media backlash.

But they never have the common sense to release statements like "hey, the latest MacOS update might brick some systems so we're pulling the updated until we can do further testing and patching, if you've been affected by the bug already go to a Apple store and have it fixed for free".

They have pulled updates [1]. The one person I know who was affected was given a replacement.

I suppose I'm failing to see the need for a public statement if you've fixed the problem and provide service to those affected. Nobody can pull the faulty update anymore. And it's not like someone with a bricked device is more likely to see a PR statement than seek out support.

[1] https://osxdaily.com/2023/07/11/apple-pulls-rapid-response-u...

methinks you're the self-victim of some confirmation bias here, sir.

It's not "refreshing" to hide problems.

It IS refreshing not to be insulted by the usual "You are important to us and we're taking this very seriously" PR fluff.

> It's not "refreshing" to hide problems

Hiding entails ignoring the problem. They're not doing that. Their track record is to fix it. Not every action needs an accompanying tweet and blog post.

Of course they are not ignoring the problem, internally. The issue issue at hand is that they are not being open about the problem.

Maybe because it isn't that big of an issue? Have you heard about this anywhere besides HN? If it were a big deal you know all the websites would be all over it as if the Mac were doomed.

"You're updating it wrong." —Steve

> Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug

I've run into such horrific bugs during pretty normal use that I don't think this anymore.

That would be: not delivering while still charging a premium.

Used to be, while Jobs was still around.

These days it's just a bunch of wannabes trying too hard to be him.

But how would they then keep up their profit margins to keep shareholders happy? Their first obligation is to the shareholder, not to the customer.

(I think it is ridiculous that the system works in that way, especially for a company that hasn’t needed investors in over a decade, but it is what it is.)

It's a bug...

It's a device bricking bug. For a $2.5-10k device.

Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss.

It's not possible (well, it's very difficult) to do this on an Apple Silicon Mac; once there's an update you can always apply it from another Mac, like the steps on this page do, and your data is still there. With Intel Macs it's possible.

> Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss.

The definition of "bricked" is not set in stone; a lot of what a normal person would consider "bricked" (doesn't turn on, or turns on to an unresponsive black screen, and no magic sequence of button presses can reset it to working order) could be fixed by a power user with the right equipment, software, and knowledge.

In this case, it requires fairly expensive equipment (another $2.5-10k device), somewhat easy to acquire software, and the appropriate set of instructions, to overwrite the device's broken firmware with a working copy; you don't have to open up the device and plug a JTAG adapter, but using the DFU protocol is very similar to that, since in both cases you're writing directly to the firmware under control of an external device. This is not like "BIOS FlashBack" and similar on non-Apple PCs, in which the device can rewrite its firmware by itself from a common USB stick.

(Also, about data loss: a device with removable storage could get bricked without any data loss, and fixed also without any data loss, simply because the data storage is separated from the firmware and from most of the hardware. It's Apple's insistence on non-removable storage which risks losing data when something else makes the device fail to boot.)

> In this case, it requires fairly expensive equipment (another $2.5-10k device)

A few minutes of access to one, not ownership of it, and hardly any system requirements on it.

> It's Apple's insistence on non-removable storage which risks losing data when something else makes the device fail to boot.

That's actually not the reason. All storage is removable if you just desolder it. It's because the storage is encrypted and you can't extract the keys.

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