Comment by low_tech_love | Hacker News Reader

Comment by low_tech_love | Hacker News Reader

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Humans are the same as we were for millennia, the problem is that we seem to be having a bit of a self-denial crisis nowadays. We just can’t accept our flaws anymore, apparently, so we build these fake meaningless narratives that “everyone is special” and “all bodies are beautiful” etc. The truth is that dating is brutal; it works very well for a few people, but for the majority of average people it is a hard competition to which nobody actually know the rules. It’s completely asymmetric gender-wise and failing on it is basically failing on being.

So you find yourself in this situation where everyone is so nice and polite, so sophisticated and accepting, so inclusive, but for some reason nobody gives a single ** about having a romantic relationship with you. How’s that possible? Well it’s possible because it’s all fake. Deep inside, in our intimacy and our inner circles, we’re the same as we were a thousand years ago. The apps simply make it obvious and pull it to the surface.

Ugly people with lumpy bodies have been successfully reproducing for millennia. Many of them even had/have shit personalities to top it off. Dating sucks because in modern times we are coddled and are terrified of failure, many of us spend way too much time behind computer screens and on social media so our people skills have atrophied, and we also spend relatively little time around other people in fun and recreational environments so the opportunities are just missing in a massive way.

The apps completely change how we perceive ourselves and our potential sexual partners. I can't believe I have to say this, but the biggest things that have changed with regards to dating in the past 10 years vs the past 1,000 are social patterns and technology.

>It’s completely asymmetric gender-wise and failing on it is basically failing on being.

This kind of attitude is so harmful. If your life's purpose is 100% dependent on some idealized stranger granting you validation you are in for a bad time. Sex is great, biological imperatives are powerful, but you wont find animals falling into existential dread and despair because they haven't gotten laid yet (or recently). That is a particularly human trait, and it comes from obsessive and self-defeating beliefs about the world rather than reality itself. You might feel like this belief is out of your hands, but it very much is not. Your beliefs are one of the few things in this world that are entirely up to you to change and improve upon (or not).

I think we’re saying the same thing basically but my perspective was a bit too negative. Dating is brutal but we still do it, ugly or not, of course. We’ve been doing it for millennia and we never needed politically correct fashion ads to make that work. The problem is when you find yourself surrounded by this comforting mumbo jumbo of “every body is beautiful” and then when you get out there it doesn’t apply. I’d much rather have someone tell me “it’s a jungle out there, get ready, people will treat you like shit but find your path and be strong and unique in who you are”.

Your comment about the harmful attitude is correct, I 100% agree. But again, if you listen to what is implicitly conveyed in social media (where every human being is basically reduced to a single one-dimensional score), you would have a hard time reaching that conclusion. Nobody really “says” that, but as a human being you read between the lines. I guess it sounded like I was saying “date apps are fine, it’s us who are the problem” but I didn’t mean it, I think social media is very harmful.

Have you ever watched a nature program? 99% of animals are spending 99% of their time trying to survive and reproduce. They aren’t asking themselves “why?” hence the absence of any existential crises. That is the universal behavior, and it is totally valid for any being capable of knowing this to be depressed about it.

In truth, who really knows what animals think.

My pets certainly seem to appreciate companionship.

The experiences with people need to be high quality if you want people to socialize often.

Speaking for myself, I'm not really interested in being around loud, raucous places where I have to spend money just to exist and socialize there. Those are businesses, not communities.

Third places and real communities don't really exist anymore.

I legitimately can't remember the last time I went to a public event and enjoyed myself.

I have seen numerous interviews with people who are religious. They have that community. I know, I know, I'm not encouraging you to become religious, but it is pretty hard to beat as a community. However, for non-religious people, yes, I think in-person/in-real-life community is in broad decline. When I go to public events now, most people are looking at their phones, or talking with the one friend they came with. Drinking helps to lower the barrier a bit. Try a wine tasting event. They aren't very loud and only modestly business oriented. Mostly they are about mixing and pretending that you really are there to drink a little too much and chat with someone cute. Also, don't worry if the first wine tasting event doesn't feel right. You can use the first event as a springboard to find other small, inclusive wine tasting events. Those are the secret sauce and the gender balance can be good -- way better than craft beer festivals (sausage fest).

> Third places and real communities don't really exist anymore.

I joined a book club last year, and it was great for a few months, but I noticed that most people, unless truly dedicated, petered off, or would only come and 'taste' for a month then ghost. I'm not saying I'm any better. When you've gone to 5 book clubs that have fallen apart, why would you risk committing and being sad when it falls apart again?

I believe our ability to commit is deteriorating; the how and why is a whole nother topic.

I think you answered yourself, in a sense. Our ability to commit is deteriorating, but the reason why is (partly) the risk of commitment itself. You risk being hurt or disappointed if you commit to the wrong event or wrong person. Figuring out what's "good" to commit to is possibly more individual than we realize.

I personally find it weird when people talk shit about someone being unwilling to commit, as if one should jump straight into serious obligations without any forethought. You didn't do that of course, but I see it come up in discussions sometimes, mostly concerning relationships. Commitment is more complicated than most people see it imo.

there are so many competing demands for time, and some of them are pretty dang good.

why take a risk on a book club when you can shitpost online? and watch netflix at the same time?

>I legitimately can't remember the last time I went to a public event and enjoyed myself.

A public event you didn't pay for? Really depends. I can still enjoy a decent meetup here and there. But meetup issues come from the meetup itself or the people being inconsistent. Hard to build relationships when it's a revolving door that claims to meet "every 2 weeks" but ends up averaging 4-8 weeks.

>you wont find animals falling into existential dread and despair because they haven't gotten laid yet (or recently)

I don't think I've heard of any animal falling into existential dread or despair, for any reason. But quality of life is absolutely impacted by ability to breed.

Years ago there was this elephant at the zoo pacing at his enclosure. I spent 30 minutes watching, and while it didn't explicitly mention anything about feeling existential dread or despair, it certainly looked like it did.

I feel you. Probably all advanced mammals have very complex inner lives and emotions.

I think it's a bit of both. Humans are the same, but the tech and environment and especially quality of life isn't anymore. what was good enough in the 50's to attract a mate in a local town isn't good enough for the entire state or even country. I'm sure if Tinder existed in the 50's there'd be similar-ish issues.

At the same time, part of this is because there's been a lot of change in how and where we interact. There isn't really a "poker night" in a lot of modern 30's life with neighbors you chat with every day. young adults can't afford (in time nor money) to get out to a night life more than a few times a month, and even those night life places feel more like people come with established groups. Modern society doesn't pay enough and gets more and more expensive. It's no surprise it can feel soul crushing.

You raise a good point. I'll summarise: "Kids these days are broke." Get-off-my-lawn joking aside, the purchasing power of younger generations is definitely less than before. As a result, young people go to bars / restaurants / concerts / holidays much less, further reducing their social (and dating) opportunities. I blame global trade which makes a few much richer at the expense of stalled or slightly declining prosperity for the masses.

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