Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome | Hacker News Reader

Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

theverge.com

95 pointspseudolus59 comments

Wish we also covered the tricks that Google used to trick users into adopting Chrome, like paying every freeware vendor since 2009 to install Chrome automatically on your system if you forgot to untick the "Install Chrome" box, similar to any other spyware of the era like the Ask Jeeves or Yahoo! toolbars.

I remember back then, when Chrome just came out, asking non-tech people how they got it and they always answered "I dunno, it just showed up".

At the time, Chrome was the scrappy new browser coming from the company that vowed to “don’t be evil”, challenging the well-entrenched and stagnant IE11. Most tech people started using Chrome because of this, and had no problem earning a few bucks promoting it.

>Most tech people started using Chrome because of this, and had no problem earning a few bucks promoting it.

That's how EEE works.

Who could forget the sticker campaign?

I was always impressed and terrified that a single click from IE could start the Chrome installer without any further user interaction.

At least you can always uninstall Chrome.

Not on Google-made OSes, no. Like most Androids.

Indeed. Living without Android seems mostly feasible however, while living without Windows looks quite difficult (meaning: more jobs require Windows than Android).

And Android is not pushing me ads for Chrome, it's basically like older Windows where it's installed but not an annoyance once we installed another browser.

It’s actually quite easy to live without android or windows these days. Of course, you are firmly in an apple world at that point, so pick your poison.

Only on countries of high income.

Or in China. But I guess it isn’t much difference these days.

When Edge was basically Google free Chromium, it was really good. Now Microsoft's product people have turned it into bloatware. I think they had an opportunity to gain significant market share and the only thing they had to do was... nothing.

Instead, they've juiced the short term metrics by using every sleazy trick in the book and I'm back to installing Chrome or Firefox as the first step after every Windows install.

MS just comes off desperate with their tricks trying to con users into using Edge. Then again, Chrome is no better with their attempts to dominate the web and force their own standards on other browsers to make ads harder to dodge.

Aside from Firefox, there's really not many other browsers I trust.

It’s not desperate, it’s nearly abusive. Can you imagine what this relationship would like between two people?

Microsoft has been abusive for longer than many people reading this have been alive.

Yeah, it's basically the Republican party.

Meanwhile we clamor to the EU to force Apple to let Chrome replace Safari on their otherwise vertically integrated iPhone.

They are the only castle left standing, for all practical purposes Firefox no longer matters, given its market share and Mozzilla's agenda making the world a better place or whatever they are doing now.

The irony is that Mozilla could make the world an objectively better place by being laser-focused in turning Firefox into the best browser possible.

Taking away Chrome's marketshare and making a dent in Google's absolute power in the web should be their only goal, instead of whatever they diversified into.

Firefox is already the best browser on the market in my opinion. Containers alone achieves this.

The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS. So theyre always going to be an “also ran”.

If history has taught us anything, it’s that the only way to succeed in build a successful browser is to build a successful operating system.

> The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS.

And yet Google made Chrome the dominant browser on both Windows AND macOS. How do you explain that?

Because Google is still a household brand. Everyone is familiar with Google search, Google Mail, Google Maps, Android, etc.

And Chome came at a time when people were fed up with Internet Explorer. There was a gap in the market when Chrome came along. Remember that Firefox was beating the competition for a period back then too. But Mozilla isn’t a household name like Google. You don’t say “I Mozilled something last night.” Google is such a common name that people literally use it as a verb.

But that all said, if Chome was released today with Edge being where it’s currently at (yes, I know Edge is based on Chromium, but let’s look past that for the sake of this hypothetical), Google would have a harder job gaining market share.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS

Maybe Mozzilla should take another approach with such experiments.

Indeed, instead they decided to be an NGO that does a browser as side project.

I'll always support user choice and that is the only thing Apple will be forced to allow. It's extremely bizarre to justify vendor lock-in on the basis of popularity.

Imagine if Microsoft would prohibit you from using Google search on Microsoft devices and force you to use Bing and anyone would justify this on the basis that Bing is unpopular.

This doesn't have to be a thought experiment.

Microsoft is currently using Windows as a platform to try and push users into Edge instead of Chrome. Do any of us have a problem calling that anticompetitive?

Because it is anticompetitive, it doesn't matter that Edge has a trailing markeshare behind other browsers, it's still user-hostile anticompetitive behavior.

Windows is the dominant desktop OS though. So that would be abusing their market position on the desktop.

It’s about locking competitors out via owning the leading market in other parts of the dependant ecosystem. If MS didn’t lead the market in desktop operating systems then it wouldn’t matter what search engine they defaulted too.

I don't see how it hinges on the market share. If Windows had a market share of 30% those 30% would still be better off if they had greater choice. People are locked into operating systems for all kinds of reasons. A lot of people use an operating system because they say, depend on an Office Suite or a piece of music creation software or to play video games. Why should this dictate their browser engine?

Mind you people on Apple systems can still use Safari, people on Windows will always be able to use Edge etc, but there is no coherent argument for not putting more equal choices in front of a user across systems. All these companies make general purpose computing devices, there is no downside for the consumer in having control over them.

To let a company be anti-competitive and lock down a platform, so people have to use their proprietary software rather than being able to run a real version of Firefox or Chrome is completely backwards.

Because it’s about competition.

If you have a 10% market share and you use that 10% market share to expand into other markets then you’re increasing competition.

But if you have a 90% market share, then you’re not simply just expanding into other markets, you’re eliminating competition from those markets.

Imaging you have a birthday cake but you said only your best friend could eat it. That would be unfair to the other guests. But if everyone turned up with their own cakes and offers up slices to other people, it then means everyone gets cake and it doesn’t matter as much who you give your cake too.

I refuse to defend a trillion-dollar company; but Apple doesn’t prevent you from installing other browsers. It prevents installation of other browser engines. You can already use Chrome and Edge on iOS.

I find these articles quite funny because in my experience Edge is way of a better browser than Chrome. So much that I ended up installing it in both my work and home laptops running Linux (mint)

Edge gives me functioning vertical tabs with grouping , side by side tabs and web screenshot snapping tool out of the box.

Also the right side are with "favorites" or frequently used sites is great to anchor Phind and Protopage

Chrome just feels half baked to me at this point.

In case you missed it, the person responsible for all of these dark patterns at Microsoft is Mikhail Parakhin. It's the top comment in this thread.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38008100

Until shitbags like this guy are forced out of the industry I don't think things will improve.

It’s unfortunate that MS took Edge down this path. Early on it was among the best of Chrome-cousins and I’d just leave it as the default browser on new Windows installs, but with all they’ve done to it’s become a solid downgrade and I’m back to installing alternatives.

I've said this about Windows and I'm sure it applies to Edge. Some marketing person somewhere at Microsoft is looking at the some metric that their OS pulls in and asking the managers of the engineers to get these numbers up. "We must have everyone using Edge. We must have everyone getting Office."

Windows isn't an Operating System anymore, its an advertising platform for 1 client, and it's awful when you consider that you're buying an ad / spyware infested OS.

The whole, if you're not paying for it, you're the product isn't the case anymore. You're the product no matter what you do.

Linux has none of this shenanigans, and even when it does it takes two seconds to turn off, or you know, we call it Android.

Edit: Cleaned it up a smidgen and added one sentence.

Unfortunately this also seems to affect all their GUI offerings, I wouldn't be surprised if the great GUI civil war going on Redmond isn't a side effect from some KPIs fighting for resource allocation.

It's crazy. A year ago I changed jobs to a company invested in the MS ecosystem. When I got my Windows machines, I decided to give Edge a fair chance and left it as the default.

I gave it a few months, but I'm now back to good old Firefox.

(And I'm getting ready to give up on {New,} Outlook and go back to Thunderbird too. I'm sick of the paper cuts and I've wasted so much time fighting it to do what I want.)

> Early on it was among the best of Chrome-cousins and I’d just leave it as the default browser on new Windows installs

Yes! I remember installing the leaked version before the official launch and being really impressed on how fast it was. The UI was also a welcome change. But over time they've added so many unwanted features. It just feels so bloated and slower than chrome now.

"Can you please take a minute to tell us why you are trying another browser?"

How about "My current one is monitoring what sites I'm browsing and asking me why I was using them"?

Or "No, it's none of your damned business".

And Google isn't monitoring your behavior when you use Chrome?

Why do you assume that the commenter was installing Chrome?

I'm not assuming anything about poster just that Chrome is the largest market share browser and is also spying on it's users.

I’d use Firefox on the work issued Mac if 1) I would have to login to everything as often as in chrome instead of daily and 2) if scrolling wasn’t so horribly useless (yes I tweaked about:config). I’m a very happy Firefox user on home windows pc.

Related. Others?

Microsoft now thirstily injects a poll when you download Google Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38014168 - Oct 2023 (139 comments)

Microsoft now demands to know why you won't use Edge when you download Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38008100 - Oct 2023 (134 comments)

Microsoft has not stopped forcing Edge on Windows 11 users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37461449 - Sept 2023 (449 comments)

Microsoft is using malware-like pop-ups in Win11 to get people to ditch Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37321002 - Aug 2023 (365 comments)

Microsoft is trying too hard with Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36940597 - July 2023 (67 comments)

Microsoft broke a Chrome feature to promote Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35787707 - May 2023 (315 comments)

Microsoft hijacks Google's Chrome download page to beg you not to ditch Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34911233 - Feb 2023 (21 comments)

Microsoft is now injecting full-size ads on Chrome website - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34886732 - Feb 2023 (364 comments)

Microsoft Edge will now warn users about the dangers of downloading Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29448175 - Dec 2021 (5 comments)

Microsoft Edge will now warn users about the dangers of downloading Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29421464 - Dec 2021 (4 comments)

Microsoft’s new Windows prompts try to stop people downloading Chrome - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29415031 - Dec 2021 (422 comments)

One more: My employer (gigantic corporation) mandates Microsoft. Edge is the default browser. We cannot change it. The browser option is grayed out, we are not allowed extensions, nor do we have access to the Registry.

Firefox is still allowed for the moment. We have to manually copy and paste links into it from emails, etc.

For e-mails, you could try using the web version of Outlook from Firefox.

I have tried that. The Outlook365 web interface is worse than the desktop version for searching and many features either don't exist or are clunky to use. Have to pick my poison but poison all the same.

I only ever used the web version and found it okay. I like being able to use extensions against my mails (however they seem to randomize element IDs in the DOM so I cannot use uBO to remove annoyances).

Is search fast in the desktop version? That's the main reason I stay with webmails.

I have a lot of imported PSTs that sit in a different section than the main Inbox, Sent, and other folders. Desktop lets me search all items with fewer clicks than Web. The web i/f at least at my shop is noticeably slower than Desktop which itself is no speed demon.

I use Edge for my work profile and Vivaldi for my casual browsing. Having got an assigned work, I open Edge, only to be greeted with the sidebar that tries to promote the "New Bing" and all the AI stuff. It left me wondered why it was there as it's very distracting. I checked the settings to turn it off, and indeed, the settings show that it was turned off (probably since the very first time it shoved into my face), yet the sidebar still appears. Have to flip the switch to turn it off again for now, but it's terrible to see that it doesn't respect my choice, even more than its (several) attempt to get itself as a default browser.

Chrome-based Edge really was a good browser. But they have loaded it up with so much junk now. You have to disable so many things to get it to a usable state.

Although, I did discover it is more efficient on low-end hardware than other browsers. I recently had to make an emergency laptop purchase on vacation. I picked up a cheap laptop with a Celeron CPU and 4GB Ram. Firefox was incredibly slow and almost unusable. I switched to Edge and it performed significantly better and used less RAM. I really was amazed at how much better it performed.

Could someone, probably EU, start working on proposal that Microsoft should ship unbranded fork of Chromium with Windows, which can be used by user to install their favorite browser, or keep using this basic browser if they want? We could go even further, and move all browser vendor customizations to extensions, so if you want to be in Microsoft ecosystem (Edge) - load up specific extensions. Love Google? We got you covered. What fun it would be to finally use Apple accounts on Windows. But at the core everyone starts with the same basic, secure, privacy respecting base browser. I'll talk about interchangeable browser engines in the upcoming post.

Slightly OT, but what the hell is going on with these massive persistent popups on every website imploring me to sign in with my google account lately? After the first dozen I just added a uBlock filter for it, but it's ridiculous now.

Add to the list strange case of a website app that stopped working on Chrome—Chase Fraud Protection security review.

It was laggy on Chrome (software is updated with auto-update. The cookies were cleared). Still, last three weeks this part of the site only works with Edge.

how is this even implemented? Is it a custom extension?

Too bad Edge is closed source, with Chromium one can at least find places in the source code where strange things are done for specific domains

Can this be considered a dark pattern?

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