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Comment by xtracto | Hacker News Reader

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Then you would have to wait forever because it is a goal of Wayland not to implement all of X.

Between that and distros and DE's saying they're going to remove X support, it really feels like a giant middle finger to anyone relying on said features.

what, inform me please, which distros and DEs say that? I couldnt find it by search.

In addition to what others have already mentioned, https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... says "The X.org display server is deprecated, and will be removed in a future major RHEL release."

prolly referring to https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-40-Eyes-No-X11-Session

the new cosmic DE doesnt support x11 at all. Fedora KDE SIG plans to not offer the x11 session in the session chooser.

I think you just made their point for them.

If their point is that they will be the ones maintaining X11, then more power to them.

Discussed previously at:

"I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit (drewdevault.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26001179

The top comment there from AnIdiotOnTheNet clearly explains why the complaints aren’t “horseshit”.

As far as I can tell, no progress has been made in the last two years (since the problem is organizational, not technical, and the wayland architecture would have to drastically change to meet user expectations).

LOL, that was a great read. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

It reminded me of the WinModem times or the OSS -> Alsa times, and countless others. Oh my I've been around Linux for more than 30 years now.

It's always the same: "If it doesn't work, it's not the fault of the thing that doesn't work, it's always the fault of the [user/modem manufacturer/soundcard manufacturer/WiFi manufacturer/etc]"

As someone wrote in the article you linked: Most people don't care whose "fault" it is, they just see it is a problem with the Operating System. Can't share my screen on Chrome Ubuntu? sorry, in Mac/Windows I do it with one click, and without tinkering.

Wayland is yet another example of "tech guys" doing stuff without proper Product development. If Wayland was developed say, inside Apple or Microsoft, it would go form "what can people achieve" to "how can we make them do it in 2023" and not "X is old and ugly, let's create something new and shiny"

It's OK, it is Libre and Gratis. It is people doing it in their free time and they are free to do whatever they want. They just shouldn't expect everyone to agree with their approach.

The article you linked literally shows you that the problem is a setting in the browser that needs to be fixed.

> We don’t expect it to replace Xorg as default any time soon

Wayland will not and should not try to replicate all X functionality. Apps should be updated to work with the way Wayland does things.

This is absolutely necessary to reap some of the benefits provided by Wayland. There is no way around it. A big one is Wayland's security model, of which X has none, and adding such access controls to X would end up breaking the same apps.

The longer everyone sticks to X, the further it will fall behind Windows and macOS.

I honestly don't understand how "apps can't do X unless they prompt and get permission to" wouldn't both work for everyone and not prevent anything... I mean, there are probably only like two or three apps total each user is using that want this kind of "dangerous" functionality, right?

The problem is a lot of X apps are just built assuming they have these permissions. They have no mechanism to deal with needing to wait for the user to grant this permission. So when you try to do these things in xwayland, you run into undefined behavior.

It may not be the 5 to 10 years you want, but they did mention support being available in the 2026 timeframe.

As for catching up with X functionality, times change and software changes with it. Not everyone will appreciate that change and it is doubtful that anyone will be entirely satisfied (though some will see the benefits as outweighing what they lose).

Not that that really matters. It looks like Wayland will be the future of graphics on Linux. It is simply a matter of when people choose to adopt it.

With nobody working on remote GPU-accelerated rendering apart from Javascript and Wasm, it looks like the browser will be the future of graphics.

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