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Comment by joshl32532 | Hacker News Reader

The dumbest "minimalism" was removing the turn signal stalk. That's how Teslas can keep their margins higher than the Detroit Big3. And no union helps Tesla I guess.

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My Model 3 has a turn signal stalk, unless you're talking about something other than the lever you tap up or down to turn on your signal.

e: So apparently that's been removed in newer models. What a stupid fucking decision.

Model S a couple years ago https://jalopnik.com/lets-bitch-about-teslas-removal-of-the-...

Model 3 recently https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/09/08/tesla...

It has been removed on the "refreshed" M3

Lots of news articles about this - they dropped it from the latest iteration of the 3 a little while ago, after dropping it from the S and X a couple years ago.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/09/08/tesla...

They're probably referring to this example in the first paragraph of TFA:

> "the replacement of turn signal stalks with steering wheel buttons on the facelifted Model 3"

They removed them on the Model S and replaced them with capacitive steering wheel buttons when they launched the steering yoke

That's right up there with changing the purpose of a column in a SQL table, after a certain date.

I don't know which models or years they did it in, but they deleted the stalk on some cars, and moved the signals onto the touch area on the steering wheel.

Yeah the model x has a different design too https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-1C20964...

I drove a Lamborghini Huracan a while back and whilst I loved the car, I absolutely hated that the turn signals were buttons on the steering wheel. It took me a while to even find them at first.

Exactly

Turn signal & horn moving to touch buttons on the wheel.. which move when you spin, is insane ergonomics

I got tired of how touch-centric the Model 3/Y was and saw the Model S/X as being slightly more traditional and then he goes and nerfs them too.

Crazy how much Tesla can get away with. That's the power of Elon. He could convince the desert to buy sand.

As an aside, desert countries do buy sand for construction because desert sand is not very good for anything.

Buyers doesn't seem to complain. In fact they seem to be call everyone else a luddite. Wonder why?

Buyers are too proud of their purchase to dare complain as that would undermine their purchase decision and get them made fun of.

Found a Toyota buyer

Horn is still on the airbag 'button' in all Tesla cars. They added the functionality back to the Model S ones that did not have it (apparently it needed some software update?).

LOL yes, exactly... The initial software had only a small button.. they had to get customer complaints to revert to you know.. having the center of the wheel honk the horn.

Why reinvent the wheel to make it so much worse?

> Turn signal & horn moving to touch buttons on the wheel.. which move when you spin, is insane ergonomics

Car's back in the day would have the shift up/down levers on the wheel like racing cars do today. Same issue but people still managed.

Do you mean gear paddles? No they didn't. Unless you mean F1 cars in 1995.

And 1995 is not "back in the day" anyway. It's not "back in the day" unless everything is in black and white!

Also gear shift paddles generally dont rotate with the wheel because they are attached to the column.

But as you can see, any negative statements re: Tesla.. results in 2005 era Apple fanboy levels of self delusion and bargaining.

I say this as a huge Apple fan and former Tesla owner (who might buy one again if the circumstances fit).

It's a thing to attach those paddles shifters to the wheel now instead of the column. Manufacturers now think you will be changing gears mid corners when the wheel is turned and think you will have a hard time locating the paddles if they were on the column. Someone needs to tell them in racing that's not how it's done.

People used to have horses instead of cars, people still managed.

If you're referring to column mounted prndl stalks, they don't turn with the wheel. Examples: Mercedes, older Model S, and lots of pickup trucks.

If you're referring to paddle shifters, ironically Ferrari (of wheel-mounted indicator buttons fame) mounts them on the column instead (again, not turning with the wheel). IMHO both are fine for street and track usage because manual shifting is most likely triggered when the car is (almost) straight. However this assumption does not apply to turning indicator controls, which by definition are used when you are, uh, turning or about to turn!

Precisely, Tesla went their own way for no reason other than cost.. it is objectively worse than their previous implementation, the mainstream implementation, and any of the competing less-standard implementations that Tesla defenders are grasping at.

There's a reason you don't put control buttons on moving parts.

It's like putting the elevator buttons on the door. Want to press your floor, please wait until the door shuts.. or lunge at it as the door moves. Want to hit the door close button.. sorry that's no longer possible.

Imagine motorized blinds where the button is on the blinds. Better get the ladder out when they are up & you want to bring them down.

Imagine a fan where the buttons were on the spinning blades, or the center rotor with buttons moved while on.

I don't understand the design decisions. You know he was heavily involved in some Tesla change when its something this dumb because no one can stop him.

On a really old car (Rolls Royce Silver Ghost from the 1920's): https://www.flickr.com/photos/kt/2837813095/

Those are not for the gears.

Those column-mounted paddle shifters also span a large radius on both sides, which combined with their quick steering ratio makes them effectively available at all times aside from when you're putting in a lot of steering lock – which is the one scenario you shouldn't be shifting aggressively anyways.

before you bark - have you tried using it for any meaningful amount of time?

Yes, I drove a model X on a road trip before.

Hated the yoke turn signal.

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